#81  
Old 08-20-2013, 03:46 PM
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smyith smyith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
Why do we have rules that punish players for throwing OB? Why do we have rules that punish players for throwing on the wrong side of a mandatory?
i dont think these two really apply as comparisons. they are in play penalties and aren't designed to punish a specific player(s).
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Why do we have rules that punish players for damaging course property and foliage?
honestly one of my favorites
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Perhaps because the rules are in place to prevent/curtail undesirable actions and behaviors. Ratings manipulation has been deemed an undesirable action. No showing with no notice during a tournament has been deemed an undesirable behavior.
and that doesnt seem counter productive to you?
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  #82  
Old 08-20-2013, 04:04 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smyith View Post
i dont think these two really apply as comparisons. they are in play penalties and aren't designed to punish a specific player(s).
Huh? The OB rule and its resultant penalty is in place punish a specific player...the one that goes OB. The 888 rule and its resultant penalty is in place to punish a specific player...the one that manipulates his rating or the one who no-shows with no notice. I don't see how in play or not makes any difference at all. You asked why the PDGA would make rules that punish players, and I gave you three examples among many others of rules the PDGA has written which punish players.


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Originally Posted by smyith View Post
and that doesnt seem counter productive to you?
I'm not sure what exactly you think the end goal is that this rule is counter-productive toward achieving, so I'm not sure how to answer this.
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  #83  
Old 08-20-2013, 04:28 PM
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dreadlock86 dreadlock86 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smyith View Post
and that doesnt seem counter productive to you?

how is it productive to allow people to do whatever they want? if the goal is growing the sport then curtailing undesirable behaviors is not counter productive, it is weeding out people who treat the sport unprofessionally.
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  #84  
Old 08-20-2013, 04:30 PM
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bradharris bradharris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
Huh? The OB rule and its resultant penalty is in place punish a specific player...the one that goes OB. The 888 rule and its resultant penalty is in place to punish a specific player...the one that manipulates his rating or the one who no-shows with no notice. I don't see how in play or not makes any difference at all. You asked why the PDGA would make rules that punish players, and I gave you three examples among many others of rules the PDGA has written which punish players.
You're comparing in-play score penalties (OB and Mando) to administrative penalties (888).

Complete apples and oranges.
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  #85  
Old 08-20-2013, 04:36 PM
Matt B. Matt B. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smyith View Post

a question that just came to mind:
why would an organization that struggles to keep its members current feel that it is a good idea to make rules to punish those players?
seems counter productive to me.
Uh, because you'd lose a lot of members if you didn't have rules preventing people from acting like morons?
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  #86  
Old 08-20-2013, 04:48 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by bradharris View Post
You're comparing in-play score penalties (OB and Mando) to administrative penalties (888).

Complete apples and oranges.
Fine, would it better if I used the rule about not manipulating the scorecard which can result in a player being suspended (an administrative penalty) for an on/at the course violation? Or the same for drug use/possession? Or for unprofessional behavior? Or failing to pay tournament fees? Those are just a few examples of punishments on the current disciplinary list that resulted from breaking rules written by the PDGA.

Point is, arguing that the PDGA shouldn't implement the 888 rule because it punishes players as if it isn't their place to punish players is a foolish stance to take considering they already have a great number of rules (in play and not) with resultant and arguably more punitive punishments already on the books.
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  #87  
Old 08-20-2013, 04:52 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Originally Posted by Matt B. View Post
Uh, because you'd lose a lot of members if you didn't have rules preventing people from acting like morons?
There you are. The rule doesn't just punish players---it protects the other 98% of players by giving them a better tournament experience.

Well, very very very slightly, in both cases.
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  #88  
Old 08-20-2013, 11:28 PM
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jenb jenb is offline
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The main problem I have with this

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Although not directly related to ratings manipulation, the 888 code can also be applied to players who DNF without giving the TD sufficient notice they would not be showing up for the next round. "Sufficient notice" is defined as at least 15 minutes prior to tee off assignment time. Players who DNF without such notice will be reported as an 888 code by the TD.
is that the player who refuses to hole out on the last hole, and the player who is in a bad car accident on the way to the tournament get the exact same slap on the wrist. The guy who refused to hole out should be getting suspended from play, not a mere 888. And while many TDs would change the 888 to a 999 for the player in the car accident once they learn what happened, it's inevitable that some pedantic TD will be a hardass and turn that guy off the tournament play for good.
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  #89  
Old 08-20-2013, 11:33 PM
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mashnut mashnut is offline
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Maybe you should make that argument after it actually happens even once. I can't imagine a TD not being willing to change that, nor can I imagine that the PDGA office wouldn't fix that for you if the TD didn't. It seems like maybe you're still angry about your own situation (which was resolved instantly when you contacted the TD) so you're looking for silly unlikely examples.
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  #90  
Old 08-20-2013, 11:35 PM
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jenb jenb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mashnut View Post
Maybe you should make that argument after it actually happens even once. I can't imagine a TD not being willing to change that, nor can I imagine that the PDGA office wouldn't fix that for you if the TD didn't. It seems like maybe you're still angry about your own situation (which was resolved instantly when you contacted the TD) so you're looking for silly unlikely examples.
I don't know why you can't imagine it. Just go back and look at all the posts by the self proclaimed hard asses in this thread. The rule, as written, allows no excuses.
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