#31  
Old 09-16-2013, 09:48 PM
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magictenor1 magictenor1 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sloppydisc View Post
Cake is better, but crappy frosting can ruin the whole thing. Ever wander around for 15 minutes looking for a tee pad? Walk about 3 miles in the 95 degree sun? It sucks. Do it a few times during a round, and it can spoil some good holes.
Exactly. If I can't find the holes i can't enjoy the course.
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  #32  
Old 09-16-2013, 10:34 PM
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markmcc markmcc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mashnut View Post
Also, I disagree that you can't fairly rate a course based on a single round. Like I said above, the traveling players who I'm writing my reviews for are also likely to only get one round on the course so my impression after that single round could be useful to them.
I couldn't agree more. Sounds like you are writing your reviews for players like me.

As an RV'er, I might spend a few months in one place and adopt a "home" course. But much of my play is as I travel from one destination to another. I might get to play a course on two or three consecutive days during a stopover, but more often it is a single round and then moving on.

DGCR is my primary reference for finding courses and deciding which to play. Discussion of navigation/sign issues is very helpful in terms of knowing what to expect or even the decision to skip a course altogether.

Overall course quality is certainly the primary issue in ratings, but signage and navigation is unusually important to traveling players.
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  #33  
Old 09-17-2013, 12:37 AM
Rondpitt Rondpitt is offline
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Thanks OP. My favorite topic.

If we are serious about adding more recreational players to our number we will get serious about course navigation.

Here is my reasoning;

Awareness of DG has grown by leaps and bounds in the last 15 years. I have a theory that the internet and quality search engines get most of the credit. Quality sites like DGCR get the rest.

But accessibility to the sport gets a mixed review. In 1995 when I started playing there was near 500 courses in the US. Now, I understand that number to be over 4,000. So, on one hand accessibility has grown. Quite nicely.

Yet on the other hand, we cripple the number of use-able/accessible/welcoming courses by an overwhelming lack of decent navigation signage on Oh so many of our courses. And yes, some of them quite famous.

Let's make it personal. At your home course --- can a FirstTimer find all 18 tees and targets in order? Go ahead, I challenge to you take a non-discgolfer to your home course and let them take you around the course. Stay with me here. If they can't do it --- then odds are that they will remain a non-discgolfer.

Either our courses are accessible or they are not. No middle ground.

This is Middle Ground;
"Well, our course is fairly linear --most folks will figure it out"
"Aww, usually you just follow the group in front of you"
"It only matters the first time."
"The dummies should have downloaded a map from our club website"
"Can't you just follow the path?"

Thank you again OP. You have inspired to quit bumping my gums on a discussion board and go double check our home courses for tee signs, numbers on baskets, and Next Tee signage. Tomorrow.

Ron "No Middle Ground" Pittman
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  #34  
Old 09-17-2013, 12:51 AM
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ACE Ventura ACE Ventura is offline
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I'm traveling all the time and good signage on a course is always a great plus, it can be a huge pain having to walk up to random baskets that are closer than the next tee pad and then searching every where for your next tee. I'd say when I review a course, poor or no signage can reduce the score by 1/2 point but if it's exceptional signage then it can boost the score by a full point. Great signage really can help make a course a bit sharper, more professional look, and you can gain a better idea for how you really want to approach each hole.
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  #35  
Old 09-17-2013, 01:41 AM
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From a black and white perspective I don't think navigation really plays a part in the score I give a course but that is something I definitely mention in reviews whether it's good or bad which can be very helpful info. If you read a review and know to bring a map or try to meet someone who can show you around that can make a huge difference in how your round goes.

Though thinking about it if you go play a course and spend more time wandering around ending up at the wrong pad that probably does change the way you feel about the whole thing; and that might subconsciously change the score you give it even if you think you're not factoring it in.

The only course I can pick out and say for sure navigation and signage factored in the score I gave was Avalon Peaks which just had a bunch of baskets in a field and no legit pads or signs. I had a map and still got confused. That's probably the only course I outright bashed and didn't get complaints.
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  #36  
Old 09-17-2013, 03:23 AM
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scarpfish scarpfish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stardoggy View Post
I think it's Adelaide in Fond du Lac nearby...but the easiest, most ingenious thing I've seen for navigation is painting one of the chains on the basket to point in the direction of the next tee. SO simple, but such a great idea.
Works great on courses with fixed pins. Ones with moveable pins, not so much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Tuna View Post
However, nothing is more efficient than an arrow on hole 1's tee sign pointing where to go once you've finished the hole.
Perhaps on Hole 1 its efficient, as its the first time you're looking at it, but by the time I get to later holes, I've largely forgotten whether the last arrow I saw pointed left, right or forward.

That information is more efficient at the end of a hole IMO, than at the start. When I'm trying to concentrate on Hole 8, worrying about where to go to get to Hole 9's tee before Hole 8 is completed is kind of a distraction.
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  #37  
Old 09-17-2013, 05:59 AM
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joecoin joecoin is offline
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I have absolutely no problem being challenged to find the next tee. It hones my powers of observation. I am not on the course to get frustrated, but to relax. Any minute spent away from day to day drudgery is a good minute, even if it means wandering aimlessly looking for the next tee. Except when I lose a disc in 6 feet high weeds, then I get a little peeved. So I guess I'd vote to spend the money on mowing instead of signage. But then again, I'm a n00b.
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  #38  
Old 09-17-2013, 08:06 AM
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simpletwist simpletwist is offline
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For me signs and/or maps are very important. It shows commitment and professionalism. Every course should be well marked especially if we want to be taken seriously.
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  #39  
Old 09-17-2013, 08:14 AM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondpitt View Post
Thanks OP. My favorite topic.

If we are serious about adding more recreational players to our number we will get serious about course navigation.

Here is my reasoning;

Awareness of DG has grown by leaps and bounds in the last 15 years. I have a theory that the internet and quality search engines get most of the credit. Quality sites like DGCR get the rest.

But accessibility to the sport gets a mixed review. In 1995 when I started playing there was near 500 courses in the US. Now, I understand that number to be over 4,000. So, on one hand accessibility has grown. Quite nicely.

Yet on the other hand, we cripple the number of use-able/accessible/welcoming courses by an overwhelming lack of decent navigation signage on Oh so many of our courses. And yes, some of them quite famous.

Let's make it personal. At your home course --- can a FirstTimer find all 18 tees and targets in order? Go ahead, I challenge to you take a non-discgolfer to your home course and let them take you around the course. Stay with me here. If they can't do it --- then odds are that they will remain a non-discgolfer.

Either our courses are accessible or they are not. No middle ground.

This is Middle Ground;
"Well, our course is fairly linear --most folks will figure it out"
"Aww, usually you just follow the group in front of you"
"It only matters the first time."
"The dummies should have downloaded a map from our club website"
"Can't you just follow the path?"

Thank you again OP. You have inspired to quit bumping my gums on a discussion board and go double check our home courses for tee signs, numbers on baskets, and Next Tee signage. Tomorrow.

Ron "No Middle Ground" Pittman
My experience is that the overwhelming number of first-time disc golfers are brought to the course by friends who already play, and this is not an issue for them, nor a barrier to the growth of disc golf. As they venture out to try other area courses, or eventually to become disc golf travelers, it can be a major hassle; but by that point they're hooked.

Then again, in my non-black-and-white world, there's always middle ground. Somewhere between the few courses where I never did find some holes, and the one with a QR code on each sign that can give you a tour of it, are the bullk of courses I've played.
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  #40  
Old 09-17-2013, 08:22 AM
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mashnut mashnut is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
My experience is that the overwhelming number of first-time disc golfers are brought to the course by friends who already play, and this is not an issue for them, nor a barrier to the growth of disc golf. As they venture out to try other area courses, or eventually to become disc golf travelers, it can be a major hassle; but by that point they're hooked.
5 years ago I would have agreed with that, but lately I've seen a huge number of people out to try it without any experienced player showing them around. I especially see a lot of families show up together and it's obvious none of them have played before. I've watched several of those groups give up and leave a hole or two into our poorly marked course when I couldn't catch them to show them around.
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