#21  
Old 12-01-2013, 04:09 PM
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gcanter2376 gcanter2376 is offline
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bad td

Thanks for all the support everyone. I did confront him at the awards ceremony in front of everyone. I know it was vey uncomfortable for him to say the least. I dont think it is a mistake he will make again.
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  #22  
Old 12-01-2013, 04:29 PM
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Nemmers Nemmers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gcanter2376 View Post
I did confront him at the awards ceremony in front of everyone. I know it was vey uncomfortable for him to say the least. I dont think it is a mistake he will make again.
Good on you, brother. If it was unintentional and the TD was honestly trying to do his job, he'll probably take extra steps to ensure stuff like this doesn't happen again and reporting him to the PDGA could come off as a little petulant, considering the stakes. Hopefully after your confrontation with him you had a least a little warm-fuzzy that his actions were done with at least a semblance of integrity.

But if it was intentional and he showed no contrition and acted self-righteously, then chances are he'll do it again if it isn't reported. (Ambivalent? Well, yes and no....) Only you can make that call.

In the final analysis though, I wouldn't let it put me off tournaments altogether. Things like this are really frustrating, but you played well, you know you played well, and you can sleep easy knowing you finished at the top of the pile.....despite the TD's imbecilic arbitration.
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  #23  
Old 12-01-2013, 05:10 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by Nemmers View Post
Good on you, brother. If it was unintentional and the TD was honestly trying to do his job, he'll probably take extra steps to ensure stuff like this doesn't happen again and reporting him to the PDGA could come off as a little petulant, considering the stakes.
Seems to me that if the TD was honestly trying to do his job (whether the oversight was intentional or not), he'd have offered a better response than trying to cover up by saying that gcanter missed his opportunity for a playoff then try to downplay things by saying "oh well, it's only a $5 difference in payout". That's the part of this story that really rankles me as a TD.

A good, fair TD would have at the very least split the payout evenly in order to acknowledge there was a tie. If he really was worth his salt, he'd also have bent over backwards to try to find some way of adjudicating the tie that was fair and agreeable to both parties (a mini CTP contest or something at least tangentially disc related). But more than anything, an on-the-ball TD would go out of his way to have tried to gather up the tied players at the course...shout for players, get everyone looking for/calling for the players, etc. Something that a player standing 40-50 feet from tournament central couldn't possibly miss or ignore.
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  #24  
Old 12-01-2013, 05:31 PM
kerplunk kerplunk is offline
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I played in a tourney where I was on the top card in the last round, beat everyone on that card, and assumed I had won. I was in my car, quite a ways from the scoring table, and someone came walking down to the cars screaming my name. I was able to get my stuff back together and play the playoff with a guy from the second card who had a hot round, which I won. In fact, I think it was this guy that came looking for me. The point of this story, I guess, is that more often than not things are done correctly, so you shouldn't let this experience sour you.
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  #25  
Old 12-01-2013, 05:33 PM
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Nemmers Nemmers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
Seems to me that if the TD was honestly trying to do his job (whether the oversight was intentional or not), he'd have offered a better response than trying to cover up by saying that gcanter missed his opportunity for a playoff then try to downplay things by saying "oh well, it's only a $5 difference in payout". That's the part of this story that really rankles me as a TD.
I agree....that was a pretty poopy way to do bidness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
A good, fair TD would have at the very least split the payout evenly in order to acknowledge there was a tie. If he really was worth his salt, he'd also have bent over backwards to try to find some way of adjudicating the tie that was fair and agreeable to both parties (a mini CTP contest or something at least tangentially disc related). But more than anything, an on-the-ball TD would go out of his way to have tried to gather up the tied players at the course...shout for players, get everyone looking for/calling for the players, etc. Something that a player standing 40-50 feet from tournament central couldn't possibly miss or ignore.
I agree 100%. That's what should have happened. However, hindsight being 20/20 and not having first-hand knowledge of exactly what went down and how, it's hard to say with certainty what the TD knew and his motivation for proceeding the way he did. This doesn't excuse how he handled the situation though....what he did was shady at best. Good TDs want to keep people coming back to his course and playing in his events, and going the extra mile to ensure fairness (or at the very least, the perception of fairness) is what accomplishes that goal.

As a TD, there's no such thing as "home court advantage." The numbers speak for themselves and the rules are the rules. TDs who lack the integrity to follow them to the letter do the players and the sport an extreme injustice.
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  #26  
Old 12-01-2013, 05:46 PM
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markmcc markmcc is offline
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I had an similar experience this past summer. I entered a three-tournament series that was supposed to award an "Overall Winner" after the third tournament. I won the Advanced Grandmaster series not because of any great skill on my part, but rather because my co-grandmasters were slightly behind me in each of the three tournaments.

At the awards ceremony for the last tournament everyone that had played in all three tournaments got a little ceramic turtle, kind of like a participant's award. I waited around till the very end, ring-of-fire, etc. and then the TD started putting everything away. I asked if there were going to be overall awards, and she said "That is what the turtle was for". Everyone in my class got the same turtle, and I know that they gave separate overall awards the previous year because my friend showed me his from last year.

I was a little chapped at first, but decided to blow it off. I don't need another dust-catcher, and I know what the scores were.

I think that the TD was just out-of-gas by the end of the third tournament and didn't have a chance to get the overall awards made. She did a nice job with the tournament series and I gave her the benefit of the doubt.
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  #27  
Old 12-01-2013, 06:26 PM
cjman cjman is offline
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gcanter2376, whenever I'm on one of the top cards at the end of a tourney, I'm always approaching the other top card to discuss scores and determine who won.
While it is the TD's responsibility to declare a tie, you can do some proactive ground work to help him out and make sure it doesn't get brushed over.

I know it's not right, but I'll bet his focus was on Open (cash) divisions.
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  #28  
Old 12-01-2013, 06:35 PM
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gcanter2376 gcanter2376 is offline
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Tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjman View Post
gcanter2376, whenever I'm on one of the top cards at the end of a tourney, I'm always approaching the other top card to discuss scores and determine who won.
While it is the TD's responsibility to declare a tie, you can do some proactive ground work to help him out and make sure it doesn't get brushed over.

I know it's not right, but I'll bet his focus was on Open (cash) divisions.
Problem is I was an out of towner and didnt know anyone on the other card. I hung around to see what the results were but they were not sorting them out on the board either. Just a bad situation. Im over it now to be honest. Im still going to play tournies just not his.
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  #29  
Old 12-01-2013, 09:19 PM
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damtroll damtroll is offline
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I'm thinking the TD saw Matt Dollar's TMNT pajama pants playing open, and that threw him off.
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  #30  
Old 12-01-2013, 09:22 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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There are a lot of possibilities, and it would help to know what he was thinking. Was it a mistake, or ignorance (not knowing ties must be broken), or indifference, or underhanded? As a veteran TD who has committed the first two, I want to be told to make me a better TD in the future. The latter two, on the other hand, might warrant a note to the PDGA.

You're right to continue playing tournaments, and probably to not choose his. My overwhelming experience as a player is of TDs doing the right thing and, if they err, doing their best to make things right. And tournaments can be great fun for many people, and you may be one of them.
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