[MVP] MVP VOLT - The Comprehensive Thread

[plex]

Just look at the wing and know that a GYRO disc will keep itself oriented for optimal flight longer than a typical disc. I'm expecting to throw a stable fairway driver with an exaggeratedly long HSS phase.

This is exactly what i thought of.

I think the Volt will hold its line far longer than anything currently out there, it will fade slow and forward, hopefully with a forward skip/slide.

I have been anticipating this disc with a passion.

As soon as i get a shipment of these im getting these out to all my friends and locals to try and hopefully get some excitement built up for MVP plastic.

Most people are very closed minded to anything MVP in my area for some reason, so im hoping to get them out into the wild so people see everyone throwing them

As long as this is a good disc this strategy should get people pumped about trying MVP plastics and hopefully love it as much as i do.

If people are willing to try anything new, it will be this driver considering most are set in stone on their midrange and putters (Rocs, Buzzz's, Wizards, Aviars, etc..)

I Hope this disc is a god send because it has the potential to make MVP blow up big time!

Now i just need to get my filthy hands on one!

 

[Oklahyzer]

*prepares for fanboy attack..
How is an MVP driver any different than one from another company, they all carry the majority of their weight in the rim?
If I took an identical scale weighed volt and whatever driver it most resembles and cut the flight plate out of each would there actually be that much difference?

Now before anyone gets their MVP stamped thongs in a bunch that was an honest question. I've spent as much or more $$ on MVP discs as anyone here and have always been satisfied.
Anyone care to explain the benefits of gyro drivers?
I'll still be buying a few regardless

I've wondered if the gyro tech will see diminishing returns as the wing increases...at least if they keep molding it the way they do. Obviously with the differing densities of the two materials, it still carries potential to increase the gyro effect with wide rimmed drivers, but at some point they'll either need to lessen the mass of the core somehow and/or increase the amount of overmold material if it's going to be proportionally any better/bigger/different than other solid material higher speed drivers. So the potential is still there, and I expect it'll still be realized with the Volt, given the drawings provided. The key is just in the differing densities and distribution of weight...like any other driver, except a little different here.

 

[Oklahyzer]

I think the Volt will hold its line far longer than anything currently out there, it will fade slow and forward, hopefully with a forward skip/slide.

That's asking for an awful lot, and the gyro tech compounds it. Thrown well, yes, that's what we get with gyro discs for the most part. The problem is that if you get the throw off a bit under power, they don't like to fight out of anny lines very well, if at all, even with a bit of height (provided you've given them the level of spin they need/like best). That can be compensated for by designing a heavy fade into the disc, but then you lose some of what you're after. It's a precarious balance, and one reason why I still say that most people don't fully realize the benefits of gyro or see what it can do, because so many lack the clean form and control that is necessary. We'll see what the Volt does, I guess...maybe it'll be closer to true overstable like a Teebird/Firebird and will have what you're asking for out of the box. If it can't fight out of annies, though, it'l be a hard sell for a lot of people and probably not a winner for those of us who throw in high winds frequently.

 

[Violets caddy]

I've wondered if the gyro tech will see diminishing returns as the wing increases...at least if they keep molding it the way they do. Obviously with the differing densities of the two materials, it still carries potential to increase the gyro effect with wide rimmed drivers, but at some point they'll either need to lessen the mass of the core somehow and/or increase the amount of overmold material if it's going to be proportionally any better/bigger/different than other solid material higher speed drivers. So the potential is still there, and I expect it'll still be realized with the Volt, given the drawings provided. The key is just in the differing densities and distribution of weight...like any other driver, except a little different here.

See that was always my thought too, in order to see real benefits you would need some sort of (cheap?) less dense material for the core.

 

[plex]

That's asking for an awful lot, and the gyro tech compounds it. Thrown well, yes, that's what we get with gyro discs for the most part. The problem is that if you get the throw off a bit under power, they don't like to fight out of anny lines very well, if at all, even with a bit of height (provided you've given them the level of spin they need/like best). That can be compensated for by designing a heavy fade into the disc, but then you lose some of what you're after. It's a precarious balance, and one reason why I still say that most people don't fully realize the benefits of gyro or see what it can do, because so many lack the clean form and control that is necessary. We'll see what the Volt does, I guess...maybe it'll be closer to true overstable like a Teebird/Firebird and will have what you're asking for out of the box. If it can't fight out of annies, though, it'l be a hard sell for a lot of people and probably not a winner for those of us who throw in high winds frequently.

The way i look at it, new players will find a disc that will hold their lines longer before they fade, and experienced players will have a disc that will help them get better form in order to master. Either way its a win/win and im sure it will be a great disc that will be fun to throw.

There will be many haters because it will probably not fly like any disc they have thrown before because of the Gyro tech.. but change is usually a good thing, and with change comes resistance to change.

I just urge EVERYONE to buy the disc and think for yourself, throw it yourself.. Don't listen to the know-it-all haters on here. Try the disc and see how it works for you before you even read anything about it, that will be the non-bias true test.

 

[Oklahyzer]

See that was always my thought too, in order to see real benefits you would need some sort of (cheap?) less dense material for the core.

That was my thought with the Neutron here this time, but apparently that's not their reasoning. The other option might be to just stretch out the overmold while minimizing the extension of the core wall (like the original cores with the putters/mids). As long as it would be durable enough not to ding up or chip on impacts, and it seems like it is, then that seems like it would work. In theory, anyway. irl, it might not net that much benefit.

 

[Oklahyzer]

The way i look at it, new players will find a disc that will hold their lines longer before they fade, and experienced players will have a disc that will help them get better form in order to master. Either way its a win/win and im sure it will be a great disc that will be fun to throw.

There will be many haters because it will probably not fly like any disc they have thrown before because of the Gyro tech.. but change is usually a good thing, and with change comes resistance to change.

I just urge EVERYONE to buy the disc and think for yourself, throw it yourself.. Don't listen to the know-it-all haters on here. Try the disc and see how it works for you before you even read anything about it, that will be the non-bias true test.

What's all this hater talk? lol. There's at least one in every bunch, but I think most of that was dispelled shortly after the Ion started to get in more peoples' hands, and then with the Axis. Fact is, a lot of people agree that they're nice discs, but nothing especially special, and for some people they just don't work as well for whatever reason. Doesn't seem like it has anything to do with resistance to change, etc. etc. It's not like these discs are new at this point.

Take this for what it's worth, but my personal experience as well as a number of comments online indicates that beginners and new throwers do not mesh well with MVP discs - not as far as getting the flights that better/experienced throwers get, as you suggested. Over the last year and a half or so, I've introduced 7 people to the game. I let them throw any/every disc in my possession and thus far only one has preferred MVP over other options (and no coaching from me...just their choices when presented with lots of molds to try out). I think with tweaks/additional molds, the MVP discs could be made to suit more people, but they're kind of niched in a narrow place as they are now. Most new throwers aren't in that niche right off the bat.

 

[plex]

That was my thought with the Neutron here this time, but apparently that's not their reasoning. The other option might be to just stretch out the overmold while minimizing the extension of the core wall (like the original cores with the putters/mids). As long as it would be durable enough not to ding up or chip on impacts, and it seems like it is, then that seems like it would work. In theory, anyway. irl, it might not net that much benefit.

I drive with my Medium ions sometimes and have smoked the hell out of some trees at very high speeds.. the disc hasn't warped at all, and the over-mold barely has a scratch on it.

If the putters hold up this well, im sure the drivers will be no different.

 

[mackgeggie]

To pre order or not to pre order..... I haven't had an MVP before but this looks so cool!

 

[thiswonisloaded]

Is community discs the only place to pre-order this so far?

 

[UnitedPuppySlayer]

I do not want to reread the whole thread and was wondering if someone would be able to be give me an idea what discs this is going to be like.

I am sure UPS can break it down

What a few others have said. I'm expecting a pretty HSS longer teebird-esque flight. (some say PD, some say SL, it'll be close to both I think)

I'm guessing so...I'll know more after I visit the MVP laboratories next week (though I'll mostly be sworn to secrecy).

I need to find/make time to get out there!

What's all this hater talk?

Only MVP haters I know of are my local pals that do it just to get under my skin.

Is community discs the only place to pre-order this so far?

I believe you are correct, sir! Justin is a great guy to buy from!

*prepares for fanboy attack..
How is an MVP driver any different than one from another company, they all carry the majority of their weight in the rim?
If I took an identical scale weighed volt and whatever driver it most resembles and cut the flight plate out of each would there actually be that much difference?

They do all carry a majority of the weight in the rim, but with the overmold you're able to get more weight closer to the edge. I'm sure there won't be a ton difference between the volt and any other comparable driver. I'm sure it won't be much noticeable until it hits a certain point. (the optimal flight speed for the disc)

 

[B3NDER]

I'm gonna need about 3...

 

[UnitedPuppySlayer]

I'm gonna need about 3...

I'm thinking at least 3x 168s, 3x 171/2s, and 3x max!

 

[onemilemore]

What's all this hater talk? lol. There's at least one in every bunch, but I think most of that was dispelled shortly after the Ion started to get in more peoples' hands, and then with the Axis. Fact is, a lot of people agree that they're nice discs, but nothing especially special, and for some people they just don't work as well for whatever reason. Doesn't seem like it has anything to do with resistance to change, etc. etc. It's not like these discs are new at this point.

Take this for what it's worth, but my personal experience as well as a number of comments online indicates that beginners and new throwers do not mesh well with MVP discs - not as far as getting the flights that better/experienced throwers get, as you suggested. Over the last year and a half or so, I've introduced 7 people to the game. I let them throw any/every disc in my possession and thus far only one has preferred MVP over other options (and no coaching from me...just their choices when presented with lots of molds to try out). I think with tweaks/additional molds, the MVP discs could be made to suit more people, but they're kind of niched in a narrow place as they are now. Most new throwers aren't in that niche right off the bat.

Excellent points. I think a lot of this, actually, has to do with their weights being so high. I loved the flight of my Axis when I could muster up enough strength for it, but the lowest weight I could ever find was 178 g. I just don't have the power to get that up to speed all of the time, so I found it to be burdensome.

If they can figure out a way to get the mids lower, I think they will find more of a cross section of the DG population taking the plunge. The discs are gorgeous and attract plenty of attention on the course, but for lower-powered/weak form players who can't throw a putter 300 feet, there are alternatives.

 

[jtreadwell]

That's asking for an awful lot, and the gyro tech compounds it. Thrown well, yes, that's what we get with gyro discs for the most part. The problem is that if you get the throw off a bit under power, they don't like to fight out of anny lines very well, if at all, even with a bit of height (provided you've given them the level of spin they need/like best). That can be compensated for by designing a heavy fade into the disc, but then you lose some of what you're after. It's a precarious balance, and one reason why I still say that most people don't fully realize the benefits of gyro or see what it can do, because so many lack the clean form and control that is necessary. We'll see what the Volt does, I guess...maybe it'll be closer to true overstable like a Teebird/Firebird and will have what you're asking for out of the box. If it can't fight out of annies, though, it'l be a hard sell for a lot of people and probably not a winner for those of us who throw in high winds frequently.

So I got "amazing for folks with clean form, a murderous pancake for those without it" out of this. Am I mistaken?

 

[Phenn]

Take this for what it's worth, but my personal experience as well as a number of comments online indicates that beginners and new throwers do not mesh well with MVP discs - not as far as getting the flights that better/experienced throwers get, as you suggested. Over the last year and a half or so, I've introduced 7 people to the game. I let them throw any/every disc in my possession and thus far only one has preferred MVP over other options (and no coaching from me...just their choices when presented with lots of molds to try out). I think with tweaks/additional molds, the MVP discs could be made to suit more people, but they're kind of niched in a narrow place as they are now. Most new throwers aren't in that niche right off the bat.

I fully agree with this conclusion. As a "newer" player entranced by the unique design and feel of MVP discs, I jumped in with both feet. I wasn't super pleased with the initial results. But I stuck with the discs (Ion and Vector) and put some serious work into learning them. As a result they have become staple workhorses in my game. I reach for my Vector more often than I do my Buzzz.

So kinda like that they're "niche" discs. They reward those who are willing to work at them, and they make the time invested worthwhile. To me, it's my little badge of accomplishment that I can throw MVP.

 

[UnitedPuppySlayer]

Excellent points. I think a lot of this, actually, has to do with their weights being so high. I loved the flight of my Axis when I could muster up enough strength for it, but the lowest weight I could ever find was 178 g. I just don't have the power to get that up to speed all of the time, so I found it to be burdensome.

If they can figure out a way to get the mids lower, I think they will find more of a cross section of the DG population taking the plunge. The discs are gorgeous and attract plenty of attention on the course, but for lower-powered/weak form players who can't throw a putter 300 feet, there are alternatives.

I've seen quite a few 175s and a few as low as 172 at GGGT. I have a 174 in my bag that is effortless to throw. I'd be willing to part with it if it were new and still flew like it did new, but it is not quite understable.

I fully agree with this conclusion. As a "newer" player entranced by the unique design and feel of MVP discs, I jumped in with both feet. I wasn't super pleased with the initial results. But I stuck with the discs (Ion and Vector) and put some serious work into learning them. As a result they have become staple workhorses in my game. I reach for my Vector more often than I do my Buzzz.

So kinda like that they're "niche" discs. They reward those who are willing to work at them, and they make the time invested worthwhile. To me, it's my little badge of accomplishment that I can throw MVP.

Most people will try out the discs and they won't work how they wanted them to right away and they would give up on them. People are slowly understanding that it takes some time to get used to them and find the sweet release angle/power/ect. for them. I keep telling people to give them some time to work on them. It took me a long while to get used to the Axis, and fought valiantly against the Champ Shark and beat it out.

 

[Phenn]

So I got "amazing for folks with clean form, a murderous pancake for those without it" out of this. Am I mistaken?

I'm not sure it's quite that simple, but close...

I struggle to come up with a good correlation for the issue.

I, for one, do not have super-clean form, but I throw MVP well (for myself). But I struggled to "learn the disc" in that it needed something special to get it flying well. For me it was a process that was different than learning other discs.

Sometimes I think about it in the way a longbow differs from a compound bow. The latter can have difficulties in learning, but it will fire very similarly for a wide range of archers. The technique involved in learning a longbow is different--not completely, but it is different. A beginner can use one, and get a decent result. But the true power and versatility will not be evident until one becomes more experienced with it.

But I'm not even sure that fully explains how it works in my head... and to think I speak/write for a living.

 

[Oklahyzer]

I'm not sure it's quite that simple, but close...

I struggle to come up with a good correlation for the issue.

I, for one, do not have super-clean form, but I throw MVP well (for myself). But I struggled to "learn the disc" in that it needed something special to get it flying well. For me it was a process that was different than learning other discs.

Sometimes I think about it in the way a longbow differs from a compound bow. The latter can have difficulties in learning, but it will fire very similarly for a wide range of archers. The technique involved in learning a longbow is different--not completely, but it is different. A beginner can use one, and get a decent result. But the true power and versatility will not be evident until one becomes more experienced with it.

But I'm not even sure that fully explains how it works in my head... and to think I speak/write for a living.

I think people who already have good form/snap/clean releases take to them right away...for the rest, yes, there's adjustment and/or a learning curve to get them flying well, especially as well as they can. That said, I've really given them a fair shot with a lot of rounds and a LOT of field work, and with the exception of the Anode, I choose other discs over MVP's offerings. Pound for pound, they just don't seem to offer much and other discs give the same results with less effort for the most part. I think I'd like them more if they'd bump stability a notch in either direction with respective molds.

Nice to hear the archery comparison. I hate compounds...they have no soul. lol. Been shooting trad and selfbows for a long time!

I also like the "murderous pancake"....not what I was saying, though. lol

 

[MrGlass01]

i don't think MVP requires upper clean form just a lot of spin/snap. This is more evident in their mids than the putters. I would guess as long as you have enough snap/spin on your throw the volt will fly well. If you don't I am sure it will be a pig in the air.