[Recommend] Mega-understable Envy?

[hawgdriver]

I am looking for a recommendation for a putter with dimensions close to an Envy with a plastic that doesn't spit out so that I can have straighter long C2 type putts.

I putt with an Envy but around 50' or so, the disc's low speed stability starts to make it less driven and linear and I have to imagine a more complex geometry that leads to chains.

I've tried putting with a Paradox, and this is pretty close to what I want, but there are show-stopping problems. First, it doesn't play as nice with the chains and pole and some direct hits don't fall in the basket. Second, it's a different feel in the hand, and while not necessarily a show-stopper, I'd much prefer the exact feel of my workhorse.

What the Paradox (and even Tursas when I experimented) offers that I don't currently have is the ability to use my same step-spin driven technique but have the disc maintain a more linear flight profile towards the basket--which makes me feel like I could have better results about 5-20 (?) feet farther out. It would also help with longer jump putt type layups because I tend to get more overall distance on the, oh, let's call it vector or azimuth between my lie and the basket, when I "max out" the range of my step or jump putt.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Well this leads me to a few questions..

Is your envy an electron one? The least stable I have are some beat 165 pfn softs, next is my broken in 174 soft, then the proto electron eclipse firm. I find all of those almost dead straight at 50'. 50-80 I'm using a glitch...

For a straight set down on tones I used to use a Spin, it doesn't hold height as well as it could but it's very straight from 80' in but I kind of splob putt.

Have you tried an Ohm? It feels a little wider but as far as broken in premium envy it's pretty much a dead ringer and the inner core is squared up the same.

A soft electron Atom would also be a good suggestion, same inner core, little more glide and a little straighter flight up close.

 

[Moose33]

It's not gyro, but have you looked at the Swan 2? I putt with them so that it will stay straight on a hyzer putt for a long way and it's possibly a bit shallower than an Envy but they feel in the same ballpark.

 

[mas30066]

Electron Proxy under 170.

 

[Monocacy]

Electron Proxy under 170.

^ This. Soft Electron Proxy, especially after a few road skips.

 

[wolfhaley]

Well I have a Paradox, haven't thrown it yet. I have thrown a Tursas. Both are mids. I throw Envy's and they fly better for me and almost as long as mids. But are putters.

I like the Swan 2 recomendation. A Deputy or Fierce may be what you're looking for too. I'm bagging a Proxy currently in lieu of the others I mentioned. Never clicked with the fierce tbh. The Proxy is nice. Need to beat it in a bit. It's more OS than my main Envy at this point. I don't hit as many roads as Monocacy though

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

My buddy throws soft deputies.... and his buddy. They both do some damage on skins and league. Impressive understable disc for sure. When I was throwing a soft swan there was no #2..

The deputy might be closer to a Paradox, that's some flippy stuff there... I would put the tursas quite a few notches up in stability.

From mvp I stand by the soft electron Atom 3 3 -0.5 0 as opposed to premium 3 3 0 1 .. it will feel almost the same... you have tried an electron envy first though right?

 

[thatdirtykid]

Broken in electron soft proxy is exactly what you descried.

If you have success with an envy out to 50' the alternative would be go lighter. A 15g difference should help you get similar shaped flight but longer. Lighter putters for floaty runs are grossly underrated.

 

[deyo7]

FWIW, I like electron Pilot. Is it understable? not really but it's straight / linear and has good forward glide which it sounds like you're after. I throw a Proxy and have had Envy in bag as well and I don't think you'll mind change in feel.

 

[hawgdriver]

Is your envy an electron one? The least stable I have are some beat 165 pfn softs, next is my broken in 174 soft, then the proto electron eclipse firm. I find all of those almost dead straight at 50'. 50-80 I'm using a glitch...

I have a very beat 165 electron. I get a more straight flight at 50-80' putting with a Paradox or Tursas and it's that low-speed shape that I'm after. Not sure what pfn is. I've thought about something like a glitch but I haven't tried putting with it, my gut feel from throwing it a handful of times is that it's too deep.

It's not gyro, but have you looked at the Swan 2? .. it's possibly a bit shallower than an Envy but they feel in the same ballpark.

It doesn't need to be gyro, it just happens that I putt with an Envy now. I'll give it a look.

Electron Proxy under 170.

^ This. Soft Electron Proxy, especially after a few road skips.

Broken in electron soft proxy is exactly what you descried.

If you have success with an envy out to 50' the alternative would be go lighter. A 15g difference should help you get similar shaped flight but longer. Lighter putters for floaty runs are grossly underrated.

I'm skeptical (I really want something billed as closer to -4 than -1.5) but intrigued enough by the shared flight plate that I'll try. Maybe I can find one in the used bin? Fingers crossed. If not I'll still try it.

Well I have a Paradox, haven't thrown it yet. I have thrown a Tursas. Both are mids. I throw Envy's and they fly better for me and almost as long as mids. But are putters.

This is for a spin putting stroke, probably a stepper, not a throw, I was probably unclear.

I like the Swan 2 recomendation. A Deputy or Fierce may be what you're looking for too. I'm bagging a Proxy currently in lieu of the others I mentioned. Never clicked with the fierce tbh. The Proxy is nice. Need to beat it in a bit. It's more OS than my main Envy at this point. I don't hit as many roads as Monocacy though

FWIW, I like electron Pilot. Is it understable? not really but it's straight / linear and has good forward glide which it sounds like you're after. I throw a Proxy and have had Envy in bag as well and I don't think you'll mind change in feel.

Love the Pilot as a disc but not what I'm looking for my specific application.

I appreciate all of the thoughtful responses! <3

 

[thatdirtykid]

Interesting, at low speed the turn flight numbers aren't terribly accurate between speed classes though envy's are fast putters and paradox is not a ton faster. I suggested proxy for similar hand feel to the envy, but maybe you want even flippier and a broken in electron spin or other flippy putter is the best bet.

I may try to throw some long putts with my paradox to get an idea how it would fly low speed compared to a lighter beat in putter.

It sounds like you want to use it much like I would use a beat old Dx polecat. Spin putt that goes straight or even tracks right.

 

[hawgdriver]

or even tracks right.

Yes! This! A tiny bit, maybe.

 

[adventurous penguin]

I've used deputies for years in that slot, but also have a swan 2 for when I want to be able to hyzer flip a 70' putt. It's almost never in the bag, too understable to be reliable. Deputies hold nice and straight for me out to about 100' on putts, then have a gentle S curve. Thrown, they're either flip up lasers or predicable turnovers. I like the deputy best in prime plastic, it beats in to be a great, velvet, grabby putter plastic. Some of the classic blends feel better when fresh, but don't gain grippiness the same way the prime plastic does.

Electron soft proxy in a sub-170g weight is also a good bet. Just practice putt with it a lot so it gets beat in some, and it'll be a great complement to the envy, especially if you use a premium plastic envy for putting now.

 

[jakebake91]

I feel like the disc you're after isn't really gonna do what you think it will. The best advice would be to learn how to putt.

However, I've thrown one disc that fits exactly what your saying.

A 113 gram polecat. Good luck in anything even resembling a breeze of any kind. Even someone sneezing from the next fairway over.

 

[hawgdriver]

I feel like the disc you're after isn't really gonna do what you think it will. The best advice would be to learn how to putt.

I appreciate this, because I understand my query may come across as noobish, but the evidence suggests it's not my experience or ability or technique in putting that needs attention. At the risk of coming across as arrogant, I won the local 40-person putting league the two times I played a couple of years ago before I became the consistent putter that I am now. My putting technique is admired by everyone I play with in MPO. What is really cool is that my C2 make % is consistently high enough that a search like this is a reasonable experiment.

One thing about Calvin and Gannon's technique is how driven and linear their longer putts are. They often have long come-backers that they have to cash in order to justify their style, and they make those. They are great putters because their disc more often hits basket, which seems to imply that their more linear shape leads to more long-range makes.

I'm always trying to learn more though, and see if a tweak results in more consistent makes. It's in that spirit that I'm looking for a certain disc.

If it's not clear, I observe that my Paradox (5/5/-4/0?) demonstrates the flight behavior I'd like to explore. But it spits out too much. What it does that I want to explore is stay within a more narrow cone of flight especially as it approaches the basket from longer range (70-90').

All the putters that I otherwise experiment with do not exhibit this more slow speed inclination to flip.

I could put my Envy on more anny and get results that are the flight shape I'm after, but that's really awkward on a stepper, and I like the step so that I can keep the same arm stroke but add more energy. So, instead, I'm looking for a disc.

It would make more sense if I could show you in person, you'd get it, but all I have are these words and sometimes I don't get them right.

 

[hawgdriver]

I've used deputies ...

I keep hearing this.

 

[hawgdriver]

So I picked up a new (nothing in the used bins) soft cosmic Proxy and Swan reborn (Swan 2?).

Swan 2 is super close to what I'm looking for, gonna keep messing with that.

Proxy is rad but it still too stable for what I'm after. I'll keep messing with it and maybe I can beat it in. It's a great rec.

....lol someone questions my putting and I'm all on fire.

 

[jakebake91]

I appreciate this, because I understand my query may come across as noobish, but the evidence suggests it's not my experience or ability or technique in putting that needs attention. At the risk of coming across as arrogant, I won the local 40-person putting league the two times I played a couple of years ago before I became the consistent putter that I am now. My putting technique is admired by everyone I play with in MPO. What is really cool is that my C2 make % is consistently high enough that a search like this is a reasonable experiment.

.

This confuses me. If you're that accomplished of a putter, with an impressive c2 rate, what are you trying to fix exactly?

 

[Moose33]

So I picked up a new (nothing in the used bins) soft cosmic Proxy and Swan reborn (Swan 2?).

Swan 2 is super close to what I'm looking for, gonna keep messing with that.

Proxy is rad but it still too stable for what I'm after. I'll keep messing with it and maybe I can beat it in. It's a great rec.

....lol someone questions my putting and I'm all on fire.

Swan Reborn is actually the OG Swan, but they are both really nice, the Swan 2 is just the tiniest bit more stable, but for what you are after the reborn might be even better.

 

[hawgdriver]

This confuses me. If you're that accomplished of a putter, with an impressive c2 rate, what are you trying to fix exactly?

You sound bitter dude, not sure what I did to incur this. If you have something helpful, I'm all ears.