Wanting More from Moeur...
Pros: The location: it's right next to the Marquee Theater over by ASU.
The water: Yep, there's water on the course! Unfortunately I landed in it (and was very surprised by it), but I still think it's a great challenge especially for an AZ course.
Cons: The first 5 baskets: these baskets require somewhat blind throws right up a sidewalk with plenty of pedestrians. The sidewalk is OB, but the course follows the sidewalk so it basically serves as the fairway. Not good.
The back 9: very rocky, very repetitive. Nothing too special.
Other Thoughts: I'd rather play the Vista del Camino course - it's about 10 minutes away and is very impressive.
Scrub Desert Course With Canal/Creek!
2 Helpful / 0 Not
Pros: The front nine or the creek nine features decent concrete pads, standard issue fiberglass signage with some a little trashed (as are most fiberglass signs across America), some challenging basket placements sitting close to the canal and drop-offs and a few very interesting tee shots where you really have to shape your shot to stay out of the water or off the path.
There is some shade on on this the creek side of the course. The road leading in provides an OB option for a few holes here. There are some blind throws where walking ahead and spotting the basket will help. I parked in the small parking strip and was directed by the one local fellow around to begin my round on hole 8.
Cons: Finding this course was difficult to say the least. We reached the general area and then has a heckuva time finally finding the actually course.
The back nine or dump nine on the other side of the road is just not a very attractive piece of land. It's open desert scrub with some baskets placed here and there. It's hot, arid, windy and littered with broken glass. The pads over are natural, the signs are painted pieces of plywood which weren't much help.
It's unfortunate because I believe there's enough elevation over here for a couple fun ACE runs and I liked the elevated basket stuck in the rock # 15.
Playing # 13 I walked over a small gully and came to small cave like indentation in the hillside and where there was an over-whelming amount of trash strewn about. Obviously some homeless folks had been living here recently and left quite a mess. Either that or some slobblish disc golfers had camped out here for weeks to get the best tee times over Memorial Day.
Other Thoughts: I'm no expert on desert terrain but I've now played about 25 courses in Arizona, New Mexico and Nevada that would qualify as being in deserts. I'm breaking those down into three groups. First, are those in wonderful watered green, grassy parks such as Fountain Hills and Vista Del Camino. Gotta Love those.
The second are those in desert terrain that have nice dirt surfaces to play on such as Mesquite Grove. It's totally natural but easy to walk on and doesn't tear your discs up and is fairly attractive, in my opinion. It may or may not have some bigger trees such as Mesquites. Santa Cruz River Park in Tucson is another example. There was no grass there, just bare dirt with decent mature trees. But it was pretty and enjoyable to play.
The third, is what I call this desert scrub. It's harsh, rocky, not attractive, eats discs alive. It only has low scrubby plants. Moeuer Park DGC is one example. Marana Rock DGC north of Tucson in Marana is another desert scrub course although they have built a very nice and challenging 18 there.
In conclusion, I guess I may not be cut out to study scorpions, rattlesnakes, desert terrains or enjoy scrub desert courses. Your mileage may vary!
2 of 2 people found this review helpful.
12 Helpful / 0 Not
A Desert Dichotomy
Pros: Moeur Park (aka Papgo Park) is located near many major traffic arteries, so it was easy to get to the general area of the course. The first half of the course has an oasis-like feel and all 18 holes are a fairly quick play.
The front nine presents the player with a decent amount of fairway variety. This includes fairways of different widths, with lengths from the 230s up to the mid 400s. Also included in the variety was the use of the subtle elevation changes and incorporating OB such as paths (see cons), roads (see cons), and not the least of which was water hazards (well, when nature obliges), forcing the player to carefully consider their shot selection.
The back nine also included some variation in hole length and incorported elevation changes. Risk vs. reward situations were prominent on several holes due to baskes being located at the edges of ravines or near water.
For the front nine, the concrete tee pads were a nice touch and provided that extra bit of traction vs. the arid surroundings. On all the holes, the baskets were in good condition and included an elevated basket to shake things up on one of the longer fairways.
Additionally, the first half of the course has decent signage that depicts major obstacles, distances, and possible flight paths. The aerial map of the back nine was useful (see cons), as were the "tee signs" on the second half of the course.
Despite the rocks and vegetation, losing a disc (when the water isn't rushing) would be difficult.
Cons: In terms of location, while it was easy to get to the genearl area of the course, it could be a little difficult to find the park itself or the first tee for your initial round. Specific to course navigation, despite the aerial map, the back nine is really anybody's guess as far as which tee goes with which basket, or if you can even find the tees without wandering around for 5-10 minutes. The "tee signs" on the back nine were painted pieces of plywood with "Papgo" stenciled on...but no indication of distance, let alone a hole number.
The oasis-like feel of the first nine gave way to desert scrub on the back side and the last nine fairways were repetitive and fairly monotonous. With few exceptions, the baskets on the back nine could be approached from just about any line with just about any type of throw. The only complaint about the fairways on the front nine has to do with most of them favoring a RHBH player and having a left-turning shape.
Although losing your plastic isn't as much of a concern at Papgo, having it chewed up by gritty, rocky terrain is a strong possibility. Further compounding this on the back 9 are the piles of broken glass that litter the course (and occasionally here and there on the front nine).
There are some safety considerations that should be taken into account. Although the use of OB on the first nine holes is good from a critical thinking standpoint, the danger to the joggers and other pedestrians is sufficient to warrant concern regarding whether some of the holes should be redesigned to pose less of a threat to the folks that aren't golfing.
Other Thoughts: The overall experience was like playing two totally different courses. That said, after talking to the locals (all of whom were really approachable and friendly) and other area golfers, credit needs to be given to the players that installed the course and maintain it. They got off to a good start with the first half of the course. If they can make a few of the holes on the front nine a little bit safer for pedestrians and add a bit more variety and polish on the last nine holes while addressing the signage concerns, this would quickly bump this course up to a 3. Despite the cons, this course is close to the airport and will probably be my first stop (again) the next time I'm in Phoenix.
12 of 12 people found this review helpful.
2 Helpful / 0 Not
Desert blind and wet.
Pros: Comments are only for front 9.
Good signage. Great terrain. Nice use of avail space. many holes are blind... not a bad thing, flags on some baskets help. Love the back 9 here. Played the back 9 6 times on recent visit. Te pads are now clearly deleniated. Signs, although blank at most tees. Hole trails are developing. Kudos to those who have put time and effort into the back 9 here.
Cons: Just a bit tough to locate... need to drive north of Curry to Operations drive. Quite a lot of trash strewn about here... 9 plays close to road. 2 discs landed in water along right side on first 5 holes... was able to fish 'em out with sticks. beginners need to be cautious here as water is way close to all 5 opening holes... Blind holes are tough for first time playing the course... back 9 ... some day they will put in permanent pads and actual marker signs and this course will rock.
Other Thoughts: Amazing how much psychological impact the presence of water makes on game play. water in the area = lower accuracy of shots... the mind game... fascinating... I prefer the back 9 here. Also played a mini game of ace race with the baskets for 10, 11, 12, 17, 18, practice. Shoot from basket to basket with a middie or a putter. Great practice as all baskets are visible form all other baskets and this makes for a great shoot around. Any one basket to any of the others makes for some fun, alt, short holes.
2 of 2 people found this review helpful.
6 Helpful / 0 Not
This course needs moeur
Pros: This course does offer some larger "trees" and a little water to increase the difficulty, not of which is generally found on other courses in the area. Baskets are nicely placed around curves or tucked into the trees to give more of a challenge. Though not major, there is some elevation changes found here. The first few holes are tricky due to the stream on the right that is a little tough to get your disc out of. Throw a slight hyzer and you will be fine.
Cons: Another example of the city giving whatever land they have leftover to build a disc golf course. Tightly packed in a small area, some of the fairways are certianly close to each other, especially for hole 5 and 6. A slightly to sharp of a hyzer here could easily hit someone on the teepad of 6. The course just looks bad, trash all around, esp. glass. The tee signs are ok, on the front 9 that is because the back 9 doesn't have any. Navigation problems quickly become apparent. The concrete teepads were nice on the front 9, the back 9 doesn't have any though there certainly was some effort to creat nice level dirt/gravel ones. Very confusing on the back 9 to know what basket you are throwing at, stand on the teepad and there could easily be 3-4 possible targets. Not the most scenic of courses in the area and it is rather close to the airport so planes will be flying low over your head the whole time. There is only a small parking lot at the start of the course but I have never seen anyone else on this course when I played. If it were to get busy, parking would definately be an issue.
Other Thoughts: A disc golf course is better then no disc golf course. Unfortunely there was some effort placed into this course at one time, but it looks somewhat neglected and run down. Certianly there are some better courses in the area that are a little cleaner and have a better flow to them. Despite the rough appearance of this course, it does offer some rather challenging throws. I come here to practice my accuracy and improve my game, not for the scenery.
6 of 6 people found this review helpful.
6 Helpful / 1 Not
A Different Course
Good Layout For the Land
Good Variety of Shot Types Required
Great Use of Natural Objects
Concrete Tees On Front Nine
Hard to Navigate
Course Is Hard To Find
Many Blind Holes
Back Nine is Lacking After Playing the Front Nine
Back Nine Doesn't Have Concrete Tee Pads
No Benches or Trash Cans
The course can be hard to locate the first time you visit. Parking is located at the Northeast corner of Mills Avenue and West Operations Drive. From the parking lot, cross over Operations Drive to get to the first tee.
The first few holes play along the small watershed. A lot of times it is dried up, but when it has water it can add a lot of challenge to the course. Course is very technical and isn't a great course for beginners, discs can be easily lost in the underbrush, and a spotter would be ideal on this course. Course is mostly flat, but they did make good use of what elevation changes they have.
Navigation of the course can be very difficult. A lot of the baskets are blind and there is a lot of brush and other vegetation that make even finding the tees hard. If you are planning on playing this I would definitely check out the maps on the links page to get a good idea of the layout.
The front nine play on the south side of Opertations Drive and the back nine are on the North side. After hole 9 you will cross the road and the tee pad for 10 is at the edge of the road near the parking lot. The back nine are even more difficult to navigate, the course is flat and has a lot of underbrush so spotting anything can be hard. As I stated make sure you check out the map.
Overall this course has some great holes and the terrain is unlike anything that I ever played before. It can obviously get very hot and dry so bring plenty of water and wear very comfortable shoes. Course also has little to no shade so you will want to dress appropriately and/or bring plenty of sunscreen. Also there weren't a lot of trash cans so be sure to take your trash out with you. The course could use a couple updates, some new signs would be very helpful and some markers indicating where the next tee is would be very helpful.
Overall I enjoyed this course a lot and look forward to getting back to the Phoenix area to play this one again and check out some of the other courses in the area.
6 of 7 people found this review helpful.
4 Helpful / 0 Not
*Front nine only*
Pros: This course is one of the most unique courses I've played. It is set in a small patch of desert, with a small wash running through most of the course. The fairways are very well defined, and the rough can be brutal. The combination of various desert plants and the wash which can have a good amount of water in it make for lots of risk/reward decisions that really make you think about every shot.
The front nine requires lots of different kinds of shots, and punishes inaccurate throws. There was great variety, especially if both sets of baskets are played. Some of the pin placements are very cool, especially the island hole where putting long or short means you're getting wet. There were a number of blind shots, which really added to the difficulty level of the course, and made it even more interesting.
There are nice concrete tee pads on the front nine, and tee signs showing both pin positions on each hole. The dual baskets on the front nine was a cool way to make 18 holes before the back nine was added.
Cons: The course was not the easiest to follow the first time through, and could have used a little bit of work on the signage. This isn't really a con, but if you have cheaper plastic discs that you don't want beat up, leave them at home as most of the course is hard dirt and rocks.
There were a few places where going ob across the creek pretty much meant your disc was lost. This wasn't a major deal, but made the course a little less beginner friendly. Similarly, the number of blind shots, while fun, mean that it is very beneficial to play in a group where someone can walk ahead and spot for the group.
Other Thoughts: I really enjoyed playing this course, and am really looking forward to going back and playing the new 9. The course offers a lot of cool and unique challenges, and is not an easy course for any skill level.
If you are in the Phoenix area, this course is certainly worth the trip. Just make sure you bring good shoes, tough discs, and lots of water, and this course is a great experience!
4 of 4 people found this review helpful.
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