Pros: Awesome course. Good mix of long and short distances with a nice mix of open field and wooded areas.
Cons: It's a bit confusing to navigate, but there's a map available (I'll put a link to it on here) lots of walking back and forth, wear comfortable shoes
The Logan Paradox
10 Helpful / 0 Not
Pros: > A dramatic and incredibly challenging piece of land for a course.
> Some of the holes really, really express what a championship level course should be about.
> In many ways, it's perhaps the most challenging course you'll ever find. Mostly, this is a good thing. The hazards are real and numerous, the wooded shots are fair, but not forgiving and the terrain changes on some holes will really put you to the test.
> Many holes are just so incredibly unique - nothing else like them elsewhere.
> If you need a good workout while getting in a game, this course will give it to you for sure. Every time I play here I feel like I've spent two hours on a stair climber.
> There is a really good mix of distances throughout. The long holes earn their length creatively and are not just long for the sake of long. The short holes aren't, mostly, just easy little pitch-in filler holes - they are a unique challenge... mostly.
> With a couple of really bad exceptions, the course plays very safe. There shouldn't be any risks at all of discs coming into range of any non-golfers. There are rare occasions where people are fishing in one of the ponds, but I get the impression that this isn't encouraged.
> I love holes which mix open fields and tight woods into one, and Logan has plenty of these. Awesome.
Cons: > Without any doubt, this course has the most dreadful navigation of any course I have ever seen. This is a result of two decisions that come into direct conflict with one another: 1. Logan administration was adamant that it only wants players to cross the road at one specific crosswalk. 2. The course design is very obviously forced into the purpose of creating two 9 hole loops that each come back to the parking lot. If the course design ignored this desire to create two 9 hole loops, it could have been much, much better by leaps and bounds and explored an even greater variety that this dramatic property has to offer.
> As a result of the above con, one gets the feeling that they spend more time hiking at Logan than they do playing - a lot more.
> There is a serious safety problem right off the bat at hole 1: It throws blindly over the heads of players on 18. And players finishing on 18 are walking blindly over a ridge and right across the hole 1 fairway to get back to their cars.
> Another problem is the conflict between 9 and 18. They tee off, going the same direction, up the same fairway. It's not a huge safety concern, per se, as long as people are courteous of others (which we all know isn't always the case), but it's darned annoying to have to wait for or feel like you're being waited on so that two holes can share part of the same fairway. It's unnecessary.
> There is also a walk from hole 8 that crosses right across the blind approach to basket 16. It just doesn't make sense why this risk was taken.
> The dirt teepads at this course are pretty much done. They absolutely must be regraded or finally replaced with the concrete that was supposed to have been part of the original plan. In many places, especially when it is even a little moist, you must tee from the grass off to one side or the other - the mud here is as slippery as snot and you will end up on your butt.
> There is so much climbing involved in navagating this course, yet the places where "steps" were dug into the dirt for future pavers never got finished and never got pavers. Now, it's just a gruelling and dangerous clambor up and down steep hills, grasping for trees to hold while you pull your way up. It's really almost a deal-breaker - and many people should really think twice about attempting this course - even when it's fully dry (which is rare).
> Adding more pain to the above con: There is a major drainage problem in many spots at this course. For example, the walk between 10 and 11 is a total bog and almost the entire fairway for 12 is a bog just the same. There are many spots like this and, as erosion takes its toll, this standing water problem just continues to get worse.
> Another thing that one will notice at Logan is that it is almost all "uphill". Sure, there's a small downhill shot at 2 and 10... and there's a real downhill at 15, but that's spoiled by the proximity to the fence to private property that hugs the entire fairway, forcing players to look to delicate midrange glides or rollers to stay inbounds. Other than that, most of the time it's either uphill or over a hill. It get's exhausting, especially when it feels like there were several opportunities to really explore a downhill run.
> There is punishment for a bad shot, and then there is just downright sadistic brutality. I was, at first, a big fan of some of the evil basket placements and fairways at Logan - I love to be challenged and I actually enjoy learning from my mistakes. However, over time, this courses idea of this concept has become loathsome. This is a personal opinion, but I am tired of chasing discs into ravines because of baskets placed on 45°+ slopes and I'm tired of losing at least one disc per visit into one of the 6 times the deep and murky ponds come directly into play. I'm all for water hazards, and a smart player can learn to avoid them - but there are so many times here where it is just impossible to avoid them and still maintain par. I'm being a whiner, but it gets old replacing a loved disc every time I visit Logan and I've been forced to bring junk discs with me to help aleviate the concern.
Other Thoughts: Overall, the fact that this course is just so darn full of amazing potential and beauty is what kills me. All the "why" and "only if" I experience at Logan is just so painful. I want, so much, to love this course. There are still many holes that are well worth while and some really good disc golf to be played, but for every positive, there's another heavy negative.
There was a redesign here a couple of months ago. And it all made the navigation, variety and enjoyment factor worse. I "get" why it was done - to help keep players crossing the street at the crosswalk. But, if the course weren't pigeonholed into those two 9 hole loops, this wouldn't have been an issue in the first place.
I really hope that some drastic measures are taken to give this property the treatment that it deserves, because it could be one of the best courses anywhere... if only.
10 of 10 people found this review helpful.
1 Helpful / 0 Not
Pros: - An 18-hole course in West County
- Beautiful scenery
- Good mix of elevation
Cons: - Natural teepads
- Several holes with unreasonable pars
- Legitimate water hazards that might not even be avoided with a decent shot
- Poison ivy in woods (left me itching for two weeks)
- Poor flow at several points (if you don't go with someone who knows the course, you will get lost)
- Absence of trash cans
Other Thoughts: There is one motto to remember when playing at Logan: "You're one bad roll away from losing a disc." I have played Logan four different times, and I have lost a disc three of those times. This course is incredibly difficult, largely due to natural factors. Even the best of disc golfers will find themselves with a couple double bogeys at Logan.
1 of 1 people found this review helpful.
Doesn't live up to the hype
1 Helpful / 1 Not
Pros: -Beautiful location and scenery
-Good mix of holes and use of terrain
-Lots of different shots come into play here
-Water hazards(not typical for STL courses)
Cons: -Absolutely TERRIBLE flow and course design
-Wooded holes seem highly redundant, every one seemed like a short dog-leg left/hyzer putter ace run
Other Thoughts: I heard nothing but praise for this course when it opened. "Championship caliber", "must play" and what not. So I was stoked when I got a chance to finally play it. That excitement quickly turned to disappointment and frustration. You are going to get lost on this course without guidance. I didn't even find 5 or 6 of the holes. I gave up and left after playing a mish mash of random holes I was able to locate. Prototypical Dave Mac design.
That said, some of the holes are great and this is a challenging course. But I quickly got bored when the wooded holes turned into blatent repetitiveness. Throwing from the blue tees would have alleviated some of this. I lost count of the <200ft left-hand doglegs from the red tees.
This course has GOBS of potential, but the layout is absolutely terrible.
1 of 2 people found this review helpful.
I've been wandering early and late/From the New York City to the Golden Gate/And it don't look like I'll ever stop my wandering
4 Helpful / 0 Not
Pros: Logan University is a private chiropractic college in West St. Louis County. West County has so far avoided the disc golf trend (other than the 9-holers in Manchester and Ellisville) so the location is prime for a top-quality course. Fortunately, this course delivers. This isn't a terribly long course, but a lot of the distance shoots uphill and it feels longer than it is. The elevation changes here combined with the wooded nature of the course creates a lot of variety in the shots; I had to throw some rollers and try a few trick shots to try to get by here. A few of the holes (#1,#3, #17) are long and open enough to let you air it out. #9 and #18 do as well, but there is a stand of trees that you have to negotiate that take away the bomb's away effect. On #17 you have to put on your big boy pants because it is a long water carry (I took the safe route) and #3 has some tricky water as well (there is a blind pond up on the right by the pin.) Most of the rest of the course is wooded. There are some really short touch shot/Ace runs (#2, #8, #10) and mostly technical holes. Hole #16 is a great hole; it's a downhill tunnel shot with an OB fence to the right leading to a blind pin with a creek in front and a pond to the left. There is some water on the course, but all of the holes gave you a safe route to avoid the water other than #8, and #8 is an Ace run. There are good tee signs and multiple tees/pins. The course was very challenging to me, but enough of the shots are technical wooded holes that it was not boring like a lot of the courses that primarily get their challenge from length. It's does a good job of balancing challenge with a high "fun factor" and should be attractive to a wide variety of players.
Cons: The flow here is atrocious. The holes are set up to bring you back to the parking lot between #9-#10, but to do that you create a ghastly combination of long golfless walks, walking past tees for other holes to get to your hole, crossing the same street four times for no good reason, a dicey creek crossing to get from #12-#13 and a cluster of #17's basket and people walking from #8-#9. Because of the wandering back in forth, there are several places where you can get lost. However, there is a solution to the horrendous flow. Start on hole #10 and play #10/#11; walk across the street and play #12; cut over and play #4/#5/#6/#7/#8, walk around the green for #17 to get to #13 (which eliminates the dicey creek crossing) and play #13/#14/#15/#16/#17; cross the street and play #9; then play #1/#2/#3/#18 to end the round. If you use the 10/11/12/4/5/6/7/8/13/14/15/16/17/9/1/2/3/18 rotation the flow isn't half bad; #8 to #13 isn't a great transition but the rest of it plays OK. This does not get you back to the parking lot between holes #9-#10, but it eliminates a lot of the staggering around the course like a sailor on shore leave.
The routes on some of the holes (#4, #9 & #18 come to mind) are not really defined for somebody that can't bomb.
Hole #16 is a fabulous hole, but the White tee runs against a property line fence. Considering how many disc golfers would jump a fence and trespass in a heartbeat to get a disc back, it doesn't seem like a great idea to be throwing over there. The Blue fairway is a bit better.
As mentioned before, the creek crossing from #12 to #13 is dicey. You either make a muddy slog through a creek or cross over a downed tree that was too narrow and up too high for my old legs to feel steady on.
Hole #9 and the safe route for hole #18 use the same fairway. The shots go the same direction so the design should be safe if people will wait, but it can create a backup.
When you finish #18 and start walking up the hill, you are in #1's fairway blind from the tee. If it's going to be that way there should be a warning sign directing you to stay out of #1's fairway (or there should be a big bell for you to ring so the guys on #1 know you are there :p)
Other Thoughts: Hole #3 was closed due to a nesting goose. That was a new one for me.
The tees are natural. I don't list this as a con, but concrete would be better. The course is very pretty and the grounds are very well maintained otherwise.
4 of 4 people found this review helpful.
2 Helpful / 0 Not
Pros: Lots of elevation changes on almost every hole- not crowded, challenging, but tight realistic wood holes-
The risk/reward element on many holes brings an element of excitement and surprise every time you play.
Cons: Natural tee pads look right for this setting, but a little slick when wet ; traversing from hole 8 to 9 is not the best dry and definitely treacherous when wet. -(ok I fell down the hill.) Basket locations not changed on any interval I can tell and I am there a lot (work close by) - all of my cons are minor/ easily fixable
Other Thoughts: Disclaimer: have been playing just since Oct , although nearly 3-4 times a week - "newbie disc fever" Course has become my favorite . Have played enough courses in St. Louis to compare and rate it as a solid 4
2 of 2 people found this review helpful.
2 Helpful / 0 Not
STL's New Premier Course
Pros: --Great use of elevation
--Tight but well defined fairways with challenging lines
--Good mix of field/woods
--Water comes into play making several approaches very difficult
--Great dug out natural tees
--Proper signage/Easy to navigate
--Most basket areas are mulched
--Front/Back 9 loops/Tees for 1 and 10 are close together
--Several signature holes come to mind...
The last 5 holes are amazing
--Course requires a good mix of technical, placement, and distance disc golf -- you might just throw every disc in your bag/every type of throw in your aresenal
Cons: --Some fairly long walks between holes
--Brush is pretty thick in some areas
--9/18 share a fairway (to an extent)
--Walks between some holes cut across other holes fairways slightly
--Tee pads are pretty treacherous when wet, needs some work
--Tee signs are hidden in woods on 8, 16; could be hard to find when new to the course
Other Thoughts: You won't find many courses like this in St. Louis. The use of elevation is unmatched in the area. Adding more pin locations (longer/more varied) to use specifically for pro tournaments could make this a championship caliber course.
Lots of water is in play on this course, so make sure to bring some discs you don't mind losing. A bad kick on your drive could send you into a pond pretty easily.
If you play disc golf in St. Louis, play this course immediately. You will not regret it.
Definitely a signature Dave McCormack course that will only get better with age.
2 of 2 people found this review helpful.
Logan University- Championship Cal.
2 Helpful / 0 Not
Pros: So many pros..where to begin? Logan University's campus spans over 60 acres of rolling hills and dense woods with 2 beautiful lakes. One of these lakes features a large fountain for an added aesthetic appeal.
-This course truly requires every shot that you have in your bag.
- Left/Right & Right/Left
-Big Arm Bombs
-Steep elevation shots
---Getting off of the fairway here at all is likely to cost you a handful of strokes on your day due to the density of the woods on the tighter holes.
--Water OB is also a huge factor on holes: 3,8,16 & 17
-Large Metal Tee Signs
-Loops after 9
-Gateway Titan Baskets
-Beautiful Land- Extremely well manicured
-Chiropractic School very close if you throw your back out during your round. hah
Cons: Not too many..
-No Concrete tee pads (yet).. Though i prefer natural pads.
-This is a college campus..so alcohol is not permitted
Other Thoughts: This course is stellar.. I love it.. Should be rated even higher, wishlisted and favorited by more!!!
A HUGE thank you to Dave Mac and the guys at Gateway Disc Sports for this one!! Awesome Job
2 of 2 people found this review helpful.
3 Helpful / 0 Not
Pros: This is a championship caliber course. no doubt about it. It sits on the beautiful campus of Logan College and plays in and out of the woods with ponds and creeks coming into play.
the water hazards and the elevation changes which are 2 things that aren't found to this extent in the St Louis area really make the course.
Has a variety of shots both left to right and right to left and several holes where you get to choose.
The ponds come into play on 4 holes (3, 8, 16, 17)
The tight lines in the woods require accuracy, and most of the wide open holes require a fairly decent placement to give you a decent shot at the basket.
Front and back 9 do loop to the parking lot, but comes at a slight cost (more in the cons)
There are 2 sets of tees and from what I understand 2 pin placements on each hole (unsure of who has keys, or the authority to move baskets though)
Nice big metal tee signs just got installed, although there is no method of marking which pin is currently in play and a few of them dont seem to match up 100% to the hole, but they are still way better than nothing.
Cons: This course is new and still in the works (not sure if its immediately in the works or a trial run see how it goes situation)
natural pads are in decent shape right now but over time could become rough. Currently no tee signs and most holes don't even have distance info. The posts are in, so that helps find the tees, but most of them are by the whites, but a couple are by the blues.
The flow of the course is kind of silly. Part of this seems to be they wanted the course to loop to the parking lot after 9. After hole 8 you have to walk by 17's alternate placement, 13 tee, and essentially down 4 and 12s fairways to get to 9. Same issue after 17 you walk past 13 tee, and up 4 and 12s fairway.
Other than that the navigation isn't too bad but you WILL STILL WANT A MAP OR A GUIDE.
Other issue is that hole 1 plays along side part of 18's fairway and 18's basket is right there which could get confusing.
As well as the fact that the first half of 9 and 18's fairways are essentially the same fair way.
Other Thoughts: This course is supposedly still under construction, so the lack of trash cans and other little things may get ironed out in the near future we will have to wait and see. I WILL UPDATE THIS AS I KNOW OR SEE THINGS CHANGING.
Also this is on a college campus so be respectful pick up your trash and avoid causing a big scene. Rumor is that it may go pay to play or buy a membership and people taking advantage my make that happen faster.
3 of 3 people found this review helpful.
1 Helpful / 0 Not
Pros: EXCELLENT USE of water and elevation. EXCELLENT mixture of wooded and open space (see hole 4). Strategically placed pins (watch out for water!). Two tee boxes, blue and white, which are correctly designed and par'd for intermediate and advanced amateur players - a rare find in courses today, thank you Mr. McCormack for doing this correctly!. The groundskeepers are superfriendly and excited to see disc golfers.
Cons: Trash cans are lacking - this could lead to future green fees or course closure.
Needs tee signs - though I imagine these will come.
Needs a kiosk with a course map.
Hole 1 can be a bit confusing, the basket is located at the far end of the field under the canopy. The confusion derrives from hole 18's basket being in site and looking like where 1 should be. So I'd like to see these two fairways separated by trees.
No concrete tee boxes for white or blue - I actually prefer natural settings, but many won't. It would be better if the teeing areas were level, but there are some instances where they are not (hole 3 blue is on a rolling hill).
Other Thoughts: I hope this course doesn't get bypassed for STL Open because of the teepads. It's better than Endicott
1 of 1 people found this review helpful.
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