An Idea for Some New Courses in the Twin Cities: The TCAAP, Untapped Potential?

[Diskobolos]

Now that it appears that the Minnesota Vikings will be building a new stadium on top of the dome instead of in Arden Hills, the question remains what will happen to this large tract of woods, hills, and lakes? I say why not world class disc golf?!

Here is a link to the city's site http://www.ci.arden-hills.mn.us/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={26B31BC2-B633-4AC5-AD22-8D37B8711530}

I thought this was most interesting part of the link,
"Ramsey County Parks and Recreation is currently negotiating with the US Army to take ownership of approximately 93 acres of the excess area.
Ramsey County has a purchase agreement for the remaining 430 acres that expires in October 2012."

523 acres of woodlands sounds like a lot of space for some great new courses. Enough room for 2-5 world class designed courses.
Now obviously parts of compound are off limits. The far northwestern corner is the drivers ed training station, owned by Mndot. The far southern edge is the national guard armory along with city hall and the police station. The western edge is littered with old army munitions buildings. This section was almost turned into apartments a few years ago but it fell through because of the cleanup costs for that portion of the site. (Apparently munitions production can leave behind some unwanted chemicals) The old Vikings stadium plan proposed totally raising and paving over this area to help save on cleanup costs, then building parking garages, hotels, and restaurants. I think this same premise could be applied to a deluxe new disc golf complex.

The roadways at the southwest corner, 96 and hwy 10 are either in need of or already undergoing major construction. The county parks and rec board have the exclusive rights for bidding on the land but they expire in October. The cost of acquiring the full 523 acres and putting courses would be very high, but I think the city could work out some sort of joint financing with a real estate developer, (maybe even the Wilfs). This corner would be the entrance to the complex. There are some existing roads and infrastructure that connect with 96 & 10 that could be easily incorporated into the planned construction. The city could build a clubhouse and have the courses be pay to play. A hotel, parking garage, some restaurants, and even a movie theater or concert hall could then be privately developed right alongside.

I think the city might back this plan if it was pitched to them the right way. The pay to play model (specifically the Three Rivers family) has had a lot of success in Minnesota, it helps show the city that it can recoup some of the money it invests in the parks. The timing seems right to get things moving, the county needs to buy now or not at all, and the parcel is absolutely going to be developed sooner or later. Also there is road construction money available at the most desirable ingress point. (It's the one area the doesn't interfere with any of the already existing facilities: drivers school in the NW, town hall and the national guard base along the south, and the small gun/archery range on the eastern edge)

In my opinion a High Bridge like destination complex would be an enormous boon to the Twin Cities disc golf scene. We could have multiple world class courses that would be conveniently and centrally located with (relatively) easy access to BRP and both the east side and west side courses. Having exciting new courses in a central location along with ample food and lodging would help cement the MN Majestic as a permanent NT stop and help bring another worlds to the Minnesota. I think that the cities could host a gigantic two week pro and am worlds as there are already a huge number of courses in town that are prefect for the entire whole gamut of divisions. As a bonus it would help fight overcrowding because it would draw some people away from Acorn and Lakewood, and maybe even temp some st.cloud and central MN players to venture further south of BRP.


I'd like to hear from everybody (especially Minnesota golfers and specifically Chuck Kennedy, Steve West, or anybody else who has experience getting new courses installed) what they think of this plan. Is it just my own outlandish fever dream of transforming the Twin Cities into the worldwide disc golf mecca, or a reasonable plan that with time an patience can become a reality?

P.S. Apologies for making this so long and wordy, but it is my first new thread and I figured I'd make it a dozy.

 

[Diskobolos]

A few more points I forgot to make in the first post. I absolutely think that the available land could be used to make some awesome courses. There are plenty areas of: lighter spaced out trees, heavy patches of woods, open rolling fields, large lakes, smaller creeks, wetlands, and both large and small hills, namely everything you would want for a disc golf course.
Also the idea of putting a huge number of apartments on this site upset a number Arden Hills residents because of the negative effect it would have on relative property values. I assume that having a vast tract of pristine parkland with several new restaurants would help boost said property values and convince the city.

 

[smarkquart]

I am in no way trying to stomp out your idea, but if you are serious about this, find a way to talk to Tim Gill. He tried, and still may be trying, to get a complex up and running at Castle Rock. It was going to be the Minnesota version of Highbridge. Everything look like it was going to happen but then some huge road blocks were thrown up by the city/ township when he believed they had already been cleared. For some part it dealt with the zoning of the land, that it was okay to put up a course for private use but it was not okay to open it to the public, especially if it was going to be used as a venue for tournaments and or as a place where alcohol could be purchased and or consumed.

I remember he had a tournament out there where it was a large but "private" gathering of friends.

There may have been other factors keeping this potential course down, but if you want to get something going, make sure you have ALL your ducks in a row when talking to the city.

 

[Steve West]

Not to mention the highest place in the county.

I've been communicating with Ramsey County about disc golf for years now. All I can say now is that they are in favor of a disc golf course somewhere on their land.

As for a huge complex, it would need to compete with all other uses of the land.

 

[djschnabel]

I always thought the same parcel would be great for a disc golf course. When the Vikes seemed interested, I still told my wife, friends, etc. that it would be better suited for a disc golf course.

The issue with that parcel of land, is the amount of money it would take to remove the pollution. I don't think they would pay that much $ to rework the land for a park.

 

[smarkquart]

There was talk about renting out the Metrodome for a few hours and setting up a course inside. Obviously it never went further than talks, but whoever it was who started talking at least had a quote of how much it would cost and it seemed reasonable if you get enough people to do it. Imagine having to tee off from the upper deck and trying to land a shot on the upper deck on the opposite side of the field (assuming width, not length).

 

[Steve West]

There was talk about renting out the Metrodome for a few hours and setting up a course inside. Obviously it never went further than talks, but whoever it was who started talking at least had a quote of how much it would cost and it seemed reasonable if you get enough people to do it. Imagine having to tee off from the upper deck and trying to land a shot on the upper deck on the opposite side of the field (assuming width, not length).

Because 625 feet is so much easier than 725 feet.

 

[Jedi-D85]

That run of land would be nice to use for alot of things. If they were smart I think they would best be off using that track of land to make a big attraction area of outdoor type activites. Alot of citeis in our area are trying to make themselves the new uptown like Maple grove is doing, Burnsville tried it, Apple Valley did and noen really are doing that well. But put a great ball Golf course, disc golf, paintball, ect. and create a destination for outdoor lvoers to come and enjoy it.

 

[Diskobolos]

Thanks for the feedback. I just wanted to see if other people thought this was a realistic plan or pie in sky. I figured a good portion of the land would be developed for things like a shopping center, bars, hiking/biking trails, a fishing pier/boat launch, or even an outdoor amphitheater to host events like Shakespeare in the park and live music. A ball golf course seems less feasible because much of the land is either hilly or marshy, but nine holes could be wedged in there somewhere. I agree that the clean up cost is a huge hurdle but something is going to happen to that land sooner rather than later, regardless of the cost.

I've been communicating with Ramsey County about disc golf for years now. All I can say now is that they are in favor of a disc golf course somewhere on their land.

This is exactly what I wanted to hear. It's great that the county is at least considering putting in a new course. A vast multiple course complex would be ideal, but getting even one new course installed would be awesome!

Keep the ideas coming.

 

[smarkquart]

Because 625 feet is so much easier than 725 feet.

That is all the difference going across the 50 yard line versus going from scoreboard to scoreboard in the endzones?

I suppose it would be difficult to muster full power because of the fear of falling down all those stairs.

 

[Steve West]

That is all the difference going across the 50 yard line versus going from scoreboard to scoreboard in the endzones?

Yep. The farthest seats behind the endzones aren't much farther from the center of the field than the farthest seats along the sides. The new stadium looks like it will be more elongated.

But, back to the topic. I can't see a way where a private enterprise could buy land solely for a disc golf complex anywhere in the Twin Cities and make enough profit to pay for the land.

A more likely route is for Ramsey County to buy the land and open it up to all kinds of recreation, with disc golf just one activity.

The Ramsey County Board of Commissioners will be discussing whether to do that at their June meeting. I would think they would like input from the citizens in their respective districts.