PDA

View Full Version : [Innova] Best Innova Plastic


DirtyMittenDG
05-06-2008, 01:00 AM
-DX

-Pro

-Champion

-Star

I for sure say that the new Star plastic is the best all around. Ive heard alot of old timer veterains say otherwise though. Alot of people say the clasic DX discs are the way to go, and others say champions, I just like the way a broken in Star disc throws, especially a valkyrie. and for any whos never thrown Star plastics, its like the combination of the Pro grip and the Champion density, If youve never thrown a Star disc you should really do your self a favor and pick one up, but dont be disapointed at the first impression, it takes a bit to break it in to 100%

Texconsinite
05-06-2008, 11:17 PM
Agreed, Star is the best,

DX is second best, since it is
easy to grip even when dirty or wet
less dinero to buy$$$$$$- great for high-risk shots on angry (disc-eating) courses
breaks in the quickest
Least overstable

garublador
05-07-2008, 09:55 AM
It depends on the disc. IMO, DX is the best for puters, mids, fairway drivers and "slower" distance drivers. Either Champ or Star is best for faster distance drivers and overstable drivers.

Three Putt
05-07-2008, 10:21 AM
I've found all of the older discs that were designed back when DX was the only plastic are best in DX. This covers most of Innova's putters, mid-ranges and "fairway" drivers. Once these discs were run in denser plastics, their flight was significantly altered. The exception to this is very overstable discs like Gators and Whippets. Since the dense plastic makes discs fly more stable, Champ or Star makes these discs work better for the shots they were designed for.

The high speed drivers that have come out since Champ plastic was introduced use a wing set up that is not very durable in DX, so they are better in Champ or Star. Since they were designed with dense plastic in mind, they still fly as designed in Champ or Star.

fedsigMaster
05-09-2008, 12:22 PM
I for sure say that the new Star plastic is the best all around. If youve never thrown a Star disc you should really do your self a favor and pick one up, but dont be disapointed at the first impression, it takes a bit to break it in to 100%


I completely agree. The only drawback I've found with the Star
plastic is the grip changes with the weather. Humidity is a particular factor, in low humidity I can control the grip by breathing on it (and fogging it up), but in high humidity it's almost too sticky and you can't do anything about it.

Texconsinite
05-16-2008, 02:42 AM
Really, fedsig? Im surprised, because I just moved from sticky swampy to dry desert to land o' lakes, and didnt notice a problem with gripping the Star plastic in any of those. Though I did find Champion unmanageable in the dry desert.

What do you throw in high humidity, champion?

fedsigMaster
05-16-2008, 12:23 PM
The weather really doesn't affect my disc choice. In high humidity I usually throw Star (because that's what I normally throw) unless there's water other unretrievable hazards. Then I throw an old Champion TeeBird. But it could be something other than humidity. Augusta, Ga. has the worst air quality (bottom 5 in Georgia) as far as small particle pollution, so maybe that has something to do with it.

ehillis
06-13-2008, 02:32 PM
Here is part of one the articles that I wrote (I spared you the boring description of each plastic, not exactly necessary for this audience :))

There has been a massive evolution of the quality of plastic that manufacturers like Innova and Discraft have been using over the last several years, and with it has come steady price jumps at each level. One common question is whether it is worth $17 to get a state of the art driver, or whether the models at $14, $11, and $7 are up to snuff.

Pros and Cons

DX Plastic, aside from being the cheapest, actually has merits that the more expensive lines cannot boast. DX discs tend to get dinged and scratched up, which over time will make them more understable and produce a unique flight pattern that a player can utilize for specific shots. In fact, it is very common for pros to carry multiple basic level discs of the same type worn in at different levels for slightly different feel and flights. The DX line works especially well for this, because they tend to wear very evenly (as opposed to Discraft Pro D).

The Pro line disc was the next improvement to the basic level and offered improved durability and grip in normal conditions. In wet conditions, though, the intermediate level plastic can become pretty slippery. These can be great all around discs that have a long lifetime.

The champion plastic line was the first that I really remember having a significant impact. These discs are practically indestructible, even in cold weather when DX and pro plastics can get brittle. Champion plastic was wildly popular when it came out, especially for drivers, which could finally take the brunt of a head on collision with a tree without suffering for it. Again, this line offers excellent grip in normal conditions but becomes slippery when wet.

Finally, star plastic truly is state of the art. It is also all but indestructible and features an improved grip that is comfortable for all weather play. It is difficult for me to imagine how any of the major manufacturers will be able to improve on the current top of the line plastic. Of course, that was said of the previous improvements as well :).

One Solution

That said, is it worth it for the average player to buy discs from the more expensive lines of plastic? A great time out on the course is perfectly achievable using DX discs, and that is what almost all players start out playing with. As you improve and inevitably get hooked however, a desire remains to upgrade disc golf equipment in a quest for better throws.

I think that for the practical player, each line of plastic has its place in the bag. For drivers, I think that it really is worth buying high quality plastic. Durability is the key issue for drivers because you have to throw them very hard, and one bad collision for a basic level disc could leave it significantly warped. You want a driver to be able to fly far and straight (or at least on the line that you put it on) without ever changing its flight path over time.

I actually find champion plastic to be a little bit floppy and have had trouble controlling premium drivers, so I try to avoid them when possible. Pro, while revolutionary when it came out and the stepping stone to the higher grade plastics available now, is really just that, a stepping stone. It has been outclassed by the higher grades and just doesnít offer anything that another line canít.

Mid-range and putting shots are more about feel, so I think that it is good to have well worn discs that you have used for a long time and know the unique flight path that they have developed. Worn in discs are also more understable and will have less of a fade at the end, which really helps with trying to find the chains.

Therefore, I prefer to use star plastic for drivers and DX discs for mid-range and putting. I feel that the top of line discs will last and perform consistently until I manage to lose them through no fault of their own, and wearing in mid-range discs and putters gives them a unique feel that gives me confidence in choosing the right shot.

Personal Preference

Picking your discs is really about personal preference though, and while I have outlined mine here, yours may be significantly different. In choosing which lines of plastic to plastic to play with, I think it is more important to think about them in terms of shot making rather than from best to worst. Buy whichever disc will be right for you for each shot (driving, mid-range, and putting) instead of thinking that it is necessary to have the best equipment or prudent to save money on equipment.

Disc golf is a comparatively cheap sport, anyway. There are no green fees and many people play with only one or two discs. Those that start to get into it have chosen a cheap, fun, healthy hobby, so I think you might as well have whatever equipment will give you the most enjoyment out of a round.

garublador
06-13-2008, 04:30 PM
I think that for the practical player, each line of plastic has its place in the bag. For drivers, I think that it really is worth buying high quality plastic. Durability is the key issue for drivers because you have to throw them very hard, and one bad collision for a basic level disc could leave it significantly warped. You want a driver to be able to fly far and straight (or at least on the line that you put it on) without ever changing its flight path over time.I'm not sure I completely agree with this. IMO, if you're learning to shape lines slower drivers in low end plastic are by far the best discs to use. However, if you are already happy with your line shaping ability and have decent distance then higher end plastic discs might be a better choice.

Marv Vega
06-14-2008, 12:15 PM
I'm not sure there's a best, each plastic has it's advantages and disadvantages. For pure open non-tree distance dx is the choice for me, dx seems to go the furthest. If there's alot of foliage I'll go with a star or champion line driver. I prefer Champion over Star but am warming up to the Star. For putters I prefer dx.

Midnightbiker
06-15-2008, 10:55 AM
It depends on the disc. IMO, DX is the best for puters, mids, fairway drivers and "slower" distance drivers. Either Champ or Star is best for faster distance drivers and overstable drivers.


I agree, depends on the disc. I like my Valks in Pro and Champ plastic, my Coyote in Star , and my Stingray in DX.

Doktor John
06-16-2008, 10:21 AM
The thing I like most about the new plastics is the durability...I remember when I first started out about 20 years ago and it seemed like my discs had tree magnets in them...I cracked plenty of discs that first year :)

Rbuzz9
08-19-2008, 09:26 AM
i couldnt imagine tossing a wide winged DX driver anywhere other than a field with zero objects to hit - i see the damage trees can do to a putter nevermind something going 5 times as fast with a thinner edge. I't would be rendered obsolete in no time. i taco'd a DX tbird a few months ago From then on I decided i would only buy drivers in tougher plastic.

ptsawyer
08-19-2008, 11:22 AM
In my opnion, Star plastic by Innova is the best hands down. Very, very tought and good grip. Once I got a feel for star I replaced all of the discs I carry in star.

My 1 exception is my Aviar putter, I prefer this in DX.

justin
08-22-2008, 11:10 AM
I can see the subject was best INNOVA plastic but I can't recommend Discraft's ESP highly enough. It's a bit softer/grippier than Star and I find it is just as durable. If you live in a place that gets ass-cold (like I do) you'll find the disc doesn't freeze as much as Star. I think a star disc in Februrary becomes as slick and rigid as Champion. Of course you could switch from Star to Pro/Elite-X in the Winter to avoid that as well I suppose.

Rbuzz9
08-22-2008, 11:45 AM
i dont think enough people know about Discraft - and their ESP/FLX plastics
i find the difference between champion & star is marginal, the elite z & ESP difference it much more dramatic

justin
08-22-2008, 01:14 PM
I feel like I've got a lot of Discraft in player packs at tournaments. Nearly every disc I've got that way has become a favorite like the Surge, Buzz, Meteor, Stratus, etc. For people who love Innova purely for their flight chart ratings I recommend DiscGolfCenter.com (http://DiscGolfCenter.com). But yes Rbuzz9, I think the problem is that so many people never try Discraft. Go buy an ESP Force and tell me that isn't a better disc than the Destroyer ;) I can't wait for that thing to compe out it FLX.

ptsawyer
08-22-2008, 01:48 PM
Star plastic is far and away my favorite Innova plastic. I wont buy anything else if I am buying Innova.

As far as Discraft goes, 6 years ago they didnt make much that I thought was even close to what Innova makes. Now it is a different story. I got an Avenger SS in ESP plastic and I love it. I really think Discraft has improved leaps and bounds in the last 5 years.

Havent thrown the Flex yet, seems really wierd to me.

justin
08-22-2008, 01:57 PM
...I really think Discraft has improved leaps and bounds in the last 5 years.

Havent thrown the Flex yet, seems really wierd to me.

Thanks for the info. I haven't been playing quite that long yet so the history is appreciated. My feeling about FLX is that it is far more overstable than ESP when the disc slows. Ok, maybe best said is that it has more fade without having more/less turnover. I've got a Buzz and Surge in both ESP and FLX so I think I've got a fair basis for this claim. In these cases both my FLX discs are 6-10g or so lighter than thair various non-FLX counterparts.

I wouldn't recommend FLX in the middle of the summer as I find it can stick to my hand a bit but of course in the cold it is amazing.

domromer
10-27-2008, 02:17 AM
I pretty much only throw DX. i've tried many times to incorporate a star or champ discs into my bag but I'm always disappointed by the flight characteristics and the lack of distance compared to dx plastic. That being said all my drivers are older slower molds so they tend to fly better in DX.

discflinger
10-27-2008, 11:34 AM
I tend to think that the star plastic beats in way quicker than champ. Also, I think pro and dx get better glide. They all have their places.

JR Stengele
10-27-2008, 12:24 PM
Depends on the disc, but I use a lot of star and champion. During certain times of the year I prefer one over the other. However, I putt with star aviars all year.

Lewis
10-27-2008, 04:34 PM
My Star discs have worn slower than my Champion discs. I've got a Star Valkyrie that I just love, though it doesn't have so much as a hangnail on it. It's all smudged and stained from dirt and such, but in terms of its shape, it's in perfect condition, while my Champion Valkyrie is gradually getting scratched and nicked over in about the same period of time. I tend to avoid the DX plastic because it feels fragile and cheap compared to the nicer plastics. If you lose lots of discs, DX will save you money, but I honestly don't see any other reason not to go with the high quality stuff.

iDisc
10-27-2008, 05:40 PM
i love star and champ almost the same. champion is my favorite because they seem to be the fastest and the most stable. star plastic is my second favorite since it is fast and grippy(thumbs up for the destroyer). the only cons to star plastic is that it beats in for a changed flight ( i usually buy discs that i like how they fly when new)and is the most expensive. i wish champion destroyers were easier to get a hold of.

Usher
10-27-2008, 06:07 PM
I originally bought all of my disc in DX but they seemed to get beat up too fast, mostly drivers, so I made the change to pro and champ and i like the grip of pro and I like the flight pattern of the champ, I dont really notice a big difference between those and a star. DX for midrange and putters, Pro/Champ for drivers and fairways.

Usher
10-27-2008, 06:10 PM
i wish champion destroyers were easier to get a hold of.

Only one I could find...

http://www.discgolfcenter.com/main_displayProduct.php?p=287&PPQT1=17

discflinger
10-27-2008, 07:38 PM
My Star discs have worn slower than my Champion discs. I've got a Star Valkyrie that I just love, though it doesn't have so much as a hangnail on it. It's all smudged and stained from dirt and such, but in terms of its shape, it's in perfect condition, while my Champion Valkyrie is gradually getting scratched and nicked over in about the same period of time. I tend to avoid the DX plastic because it feels fragile and cheap compared to the nicer plastics. If you lose lots of discs, DX will save you money, but I honestly don't see any other reason not to go with the high quality stuff.

That's crazy yo. My star destroyers flipped like valks after 2 mos while my champ destroyer still flies with a little stability after the same stretch with minimal tree trunkin'. Also, many locals have vocalized a similar pattern. Are you just trying to convince yourself?

petecarp
10-27-2008, 07:59 PM
star discs definitely age nay experience themselves much more quickly than champion plastic. i was a star-snob for a little while and realized that on wooded courses they break in much quicker than champion, but champion does seem to be more susceptible to knicks and dings but will hold their original flight line for many more rounds. i will say an experienced star disc, if you can adjust to its new line, does fly very well just not like its original form.

Lewis
10-27-2008, 11:18 PM
I'm just relating my experience, though I must admit I don't claim to be a reliable judge of how their flight characteristics are changing over time. My Champion Valk is much lighter than my Star Valk, which could account for its major flippyness, and I'm throwing with a lot more snap now than when I bought them, so there are too many variables in play for me to compare their "maturation" since they were new. On the other hand, I throw both discs a lot, and the Champion disc is showing a lot more marks on its surface.

abelrod
10-27-2008, 11:20 PM
is it true that dx is innova's longest flying plastic. if so is that also true for discraft's pro D

garublador
10-28-2008, 09:33 AM
is it true that dx is innova's longest flying plastic. if so is that also true for discraft's pro DFor the most part. FWIW, the last two distance records were set using a DX Valk and DX Teebird. It kind of depends on the disc, though. For anything slower than a speed 9 disc it's a safe assumption that beat DX will fly the furthest with the most control. A beat DX disc will generally fade later and less than a beat disc in other plastics. That being said, I've had some of my longest throws with a Star Valk.

IIRC, the last records thrown with Discraft drivers were using X plastic. However, the ESP Flash has been showing up at distance competitions lately, too.

Mark R
10-28-2008, 10:27 AM
I like Innova Champion and Discraft X plastic. Not sure many discs beat a 172 champion valkyrie, no matter who's throwing (backhand).