Originally Posted by pjhayes7 (Post 3728194)

Look at the effect Ricky has had on the Pig. That disc was a terrible seller until he took it up.

Originally Posted by pjhayes7 (Post 3728194)

I stand corrected. I missed it in the 2020 sales list. Obviously some of that is skewed since it is (i assume, although i am often mistaken about many things) the only place that sells Infinites line of discs, but still pretty good sales. I still stand by my argument that the players throwing have suck an effect on what sells, especially on the more casual/newer players who may not have their bag setup set in stone. Look at the effect Ricky has had on the Pig. That disc was a terrible seller until he took it up. And look at the drop off of the Nova and the Harp. Still pretty good sellers, but not close to what they did when Paul and Ricky threw them.

Good molds will find a way into people's bags eventually, no matter who throws them. But a top five player using them is far better at moving a mold off the shelves than just a quality mold alone.

Originally Posted by BillFleming (Post 3728201)

And Ricky doesn't throw the Pig (the normal name for the R-Pro Pig)....he throws the Wysocki Pig which is a flatter version of the R-Pro Pig and better for forehands. This is one of the issues of different versions of a disc having similar names and being referred to by the 'basic' name.

Discmania COULD have another company make FD's (or something else) with a similar mold and similar plastic...call it an FD and people might flock to buy it...but is it really an FD or is it just 'similar to an FD'?

Originally Posted by soothsayer (Post 3728224)

I mean, if Innova was making it, and used the same plastic as they always used and it was branded as an Infinite Cleopatra or something weird like that, wouldnt it still be an FD? Like if it was exactly the same process, mold and materials?

Edit: I'm an idiot and read your post wrong. My bad. Clearly if Discmania had someone else make it it wouldnt be made by innova... I need to learn to read.

Originally Posted by BillFleming (Post 3728249)

Not an idiot....it happens. If I had a disc for every time I responded to a post that I had misread/misunderstood....I'd have a lot more discs.

It seems like the first part might already be happening (Innova made for Infinite and renamed).

The second part (Discmania reusing the name on discs made elsewhere) just won't be the same. Yes, people will buy them up thinking they are the same thing, but then realize it is different....word will get around and the sales will drop off. There will always be people who don't care what the disc is like as long as it is close to what they are familiar with.

I wouldn't be surprised if Discmania's big announcement was that they were bought out by someone else. But it might just be.....no more Originals, we've moved on.

Originally Posted by VictorB (Post 3728146)

My point is that they have had more than ample opportunity to insulate their company and not be nearly as dependent of the whims of others.

I think they really dropped the ball on reinvestment into their own infrastructure and they are paying a supreme price for that right now. What's happening now was likely avoidable if they had invested in becoming more independent.

I'm not faulting them for the pandemic - but there has certainly been availability and production issues from 2019 and prior that were never solved.

Originally Posted by tbird888 (Post 3728309)

How could they insulate their company when their molds are made from Innova's mold pieces? Do you think Dave Dunipace is going to hand Jussi the CAD files to cut the lower wing pieces of the Firebird or Wraith or Aviar? Get real.

Originally Posted by Ahildy13 (Post 3728353)

This gives me some thoughts:
- We know Innova owns the molds, the solid metal pieces used to make the originals. DM could not purchase the physical pieces, because Innova uses them for other discs. What would it have cost for DM to pay for the CAD designs/have Innova cut a "2nd"? Obviously it wouldn't be exactly the same, but making the change years ago might have gone smoother?
- Mold Endurance. As the molds are temperature/pressure cycled they are stressed, and can in theory change dimensionally over time. Could it be that some of the DM pieces are also the most popular Innova pieces, and they don't want the extra cycles on their molds?

Originally Posted by Flick Maniac (Post 3728405)

Such good discussion, but also tons of conjecture, hindsight, guesswork and plain incorrect information too. Continue. :popcorn: