Yeah probably something you want to feel up... I prefer the squared corner core but I can't live without my Spin.. It's the most understable gyro going, I threw Anodes for the pre Axiom years and Ions.

I you use a fan grip, you probably wouldn't even notice but I throw a power grip almost all the time.

I keep eyeballing a Sting in the store.. It's max weight first run and non gyro haha.. So then I'm thinking you know I should just get a fresh 168- 170 Relay with same flight numbers and try to rekindle my love for the one I kinda wore in, start a cycle... anything near me (as in if an envelope shows up with discs in it I will get beat) is either heavy like my max weight which I have or is around 165 which I have and/or is orange/red which I have 3 discs in gyro. I refuse to get another Disc that looks like the other 3 I bag... aarghhh come on MVP get some new colours! I will keep an eye out maybe when the disc dealer comes to the tourney in May I can get one with flight numbers so it looks different. So annoying.

Relay and Sting really don't overlap all that much. The Sting is more like what the Inspire was Supposed to fly like...

... but I support you getting a flight number Relay just so we can have some feedback on if it has changed!

Watched all three videos. It is amazing how well those guys get the Proxy to hold a hyzer at 280'+, and yet they can also get it to hold an anny under 150'. Appears to be a magical unicorn disc in those videos. I think I'm convinced. I'll grab a Proxy, especially since I realized I let my old man borrow my Colts while he's trying to learn the game.

Yeah, it's magical. The amazing thing is that even though I'm no Mike c I can do the same proxy things, just on a less far scale. Good among wide range of power.

All this Proxy talk and I pulled mine out and messed around in the yard... and then I though what about my Neutron Atom, it went better, I might bag that for a week or month while my Envys are breaking in..

How firm are the N Atoms?

I am a big fan of the Soft and Firm E Atoms, but pretty much despise medium E and Proton.

Really nice, I have one thrower one show-er heart of Chains run... firm but grippy... just enough flex in the plate it's not plasma country but it's not hard.. Best thing that ever got close to kicking the Envy.. I'm going to try it as a milder approach straight disc, something I can romp on for straight lines with a little anny adjustment and straighter fade. Not as glider as electron :) good for me

I've only thrown a Soft Neutron and this echoes what mine does. What's great about the Proxy is it feels virtually the same as the Envy, you just lose the LSS. Basically the same relationship as the Ion and Anode, one will fade and the other will do its ****edest to stay straight. I think it powers down alright but like somebody said, it's a lower profile faster putter so it still needs some good spin. I would guess a Plasma Proxy is what you want for negative LSS but that's just a guess.