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seedlings 06-14-2021 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rastnav (Post 3727970)
We’ll find out something on the 21st. It might just be an announcement about future production, without too much emphasis on why.

I think what we will get is a version of the story that Discmania chooses to tell, and then Innova will tell some version of the story, and then people will argue about what the “truth” actually is. To some extent, both versions are likely to be partially true, and from a certain perspective.

Whether we ever get anything past that? Who knows. It also depends on whether there will be any ongoing relationship between Innova and Discmania. I have no idea if they are announcing limited future availability, unknown future availability, or some sort of complete break between the brands.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rol6566 (Post 3728104)
Newest post per Jussi on Facebook

"I have got a massive amount of questions and comments about Discmania Originals from our fans. Many of them are about molds and rights. To clarify:
Innova owns all molds and mold parts that are used to make Discmania Originals. They control that. Discmania own all their disc names."


This was easy to see coming... and now we know why.

soothsayer 06-14-2021 10:10 AM

Remember all those times Simon threw the Shadow Titan in Portland? /S

seedlings 06-14-2021 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soothsayer (Post 3728125)
Remember all those times Simon threw the Shadow Titan in Portland? /S

Usually his approach after an Enigma drive, iirc.

TheOtherBill 06-14-2021 10:36 AM

IIRC Jussi had to DNF an event years ago to travel to see a sick family member. Since then he has spent a lot of time of the Discgolfpark work and moved his focus from making discs. No way to see this COVID surge coming, or even Simon's injury and well-publicized return, or even the amazing success Eagle has had this year to drive sales crazy.

It was a sort of perfect storm that coincided with the timing of the Innova/Discmania molding agreement.

VictorB 06-14-2021 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOtherBill (Post 3728136)
IIRC Jussi had to DNF an event years ago to travel to see a sick family member. Since then he has spent a lot of time of the Discgolfpark work and moved his focus from making discs. No way to see this COVID surge coming, or even Simon's injury and well-publicized return, or even the amazing success Eagle has had this year to drive sales crazy.

It was a sort of perfect storm that coincided with the timing of the Innova/Discmania molding agreement.


I think this angle would be more buyable if the company hadn't been around for 15 years already. I find it really hard to believe that the recent success of the last 4 years has snuck up in them in a way they couldn't act on it

Rastnav 06-14-2021 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seedlings (Post 3728122)
This was easy to see coming... and now we know why.

a) We don’t know what exactly is coming.
b) Every brand has had issues with supply meeting demand in the pandemic, although this is also clearly more than just that.
c) Any, and I mean any, partnership between two different companies can go south, but it’s hardly inevitable. You may ask yourself, is this Infinite Disc's beautiful house? (i.e. Do you think Infinite Discs is currently making a mistake? Probably not, right?)
d) It’s always been known (I believe) that Discmania OL discs were reshuffled tops and bottoms of existing Innova molds. That Innova owns those molds and mold designs should not be a surprise. I don’t think this is really new info.
e) For those who think that Discmania should have taken steps to ensure they weren’t in this situation, by owning their own molds and making sure their production wasn’t completely controlled by Innova, what makes you think that the issues now aren’t directly tied to DM doing just that? Sourcing manufacturing from other sources is the quickest path to getting their own molds out there. Yeah, it’s probably in DMs best interest long term to bring manufacturing in-house, but waiting on that would delay the ownership of molds (assuming that DM does own the molds of the new lines).
f) The cluster-effness of this is greatly exaggerated by the double-whammy of Simon and Eagle hitting huge at exactly the same time as COVID bringing unprecedented growth to the game. That was certainly not predictable 2 years ago. Blaming DM for failing to be completely ready for a global pandemic to hit is a very “hindsight is 20/20”.

biscoe 06-14-2021 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VictorB (Post 3728140)
I think this angle would be more buyable if the company hadn't been around for 15 years already. I find it really hard to believe that the recent success of the last 4 years has snuck up in them in a way they couldn't act on it

They were acting on the last 4 years when they expanded their lines. The issues are from the last 15 months which have screwed up pretty much every company in the industry.

VictorB 06-14-2021 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biscoe (Post 3728145)
They were acting on the last 4 years when they expanded their lines. The issues are from the last 15 months which have screwed up pretty much every company in the industry.

My point is that they have had more than ample opportunity to insulate their company and not be nearly as dependent of the whims of others.

I think they really dropped the ball on reinvestment into their own infrastructure and they are paying a supreme price for that right now. What's happening now was likely avoidable if they had invested in becoming more independent.

I'm not faulting them for the pandemic - but there has certainly been availability and production issues from 2019 and prior that were never solved.

seedlings 06-14-2021 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rastnav (Post 3728141)
a) We don’t know what exactly is coming.
b) Every brand has had issues with supply meeting demand in the pandemic, although this is also clearly more than just that.
c) Any, and I mean any, partnership between two different companies can go south, but it’s hardly inevitable. You may ask yourself, is this Infinite Disc's beautiful house? (i.e. Do you think Infinite Discs is currently making a mistake? Probably not, right?)
d) It’s always been known (I believe) that Discmania OL discs were reshuffled tops and bottoms of existing Innova molds. That Innova owns those molds and mold designs should not be a surprise. I don’t think this is really new info.
e) For those who think that Discmania should have taken steps to ensure they weren’t in this situation, by owning their own molds and making sure their production wasn’t completely controlled by Innova, what makes you think that the issues now aren’t directly tied to DM doing just that? Sourcing manufacturing from other sources is the quickest path to getting their own molds out there. Yeah, it’s probably in DMs best interest long term to bring manufacturing in-house, but waiting on that would delay the ownership of molds (assuming that DM does own the molds of the new lines).
f) The cluster-effness of this is greatly exaggerated by the double-whammy of Simon and Eagle hitting huge at exactly the same time as COVID bringing unprecedented growth to the game. That was certainly not predictable 2 years ago. Blaming DM for failing to be completely ready for a global pandemic to hit is a very “hindsight is 20/20”.

Well at least DM will fill us in as early as next week on the issue from over a year ago when they added L64 and Yikun, frustrating relationship with Innova?

Look, I was just getting 8nto disc golf last year and figuring out discs and brands and discovering what I liked and what discs I wanted to add. Eagle and Simon are certainly influencers with more personality than some other high profile pros. Just about the time I can start throwing discs the way they were supposed to fly, I can’t buy another P2. I can’t try an MD, let alone throw a DD3. I had no problem waiting until covid settled down and discs were being made again. It just turns out they’re not the discs I’d delayed hopes to incorporate into my game.

But, I’m a one-off random guy on the internet, so no big loss for DM. I’ll politely bow out of the discussion unless there is Original stock coming back.

soothsayer 06-14-2021 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biscoe (Post 3728145)
They were acting on the last 4 years when they expanded their lines. The issues are from the last 15 months which have screwed up pretty much every company in the industry.

Except almost every other company has been able to beef up production (MVP, Discraft, even Innova producing tons of discs for Infinite).


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