Disc Golf Course Review

Disc Golf Course Review (https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/index.php)
-   General Disc Golf Chat (https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   Brodie Smith PDGA #128378 (https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135632)

Emoney 05-28-2020 02:13 PM

Popcorn emoji

Nick Pacific 05-28-2020 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolt (Post 3590873)
Brodie really makes alot of sense in Foundation DiscGolf latest "Grip Locked 2.17" video

Interesting ideas on promoting the idea of shrinking the OB areas/having less OB but always punishing it with stroke/distance. The main problem with stroke & distance is that in big events with lots of competitors is that it tends to cause backups. I'm surprised Paul didn't counter/bring that up but maybe he didn't think of it.

I like the idea, I think we need less artificial OB in general and maybe really punishing the bad shots that do land OB with stroke and distance but pace of play should be taken into consideration. Brodie hasn't played but one big event so maybe he hasn't had experience dealing with that.

Jugular 05-28-2020 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Pacific (Post 3590966)
Interesting ideas on promoting the idea of shrinking the OB areas/having less OB but always punishing it with stroke/distance. The main problem with stroke & distance is that in big events with lots of competitors is that it tends to cause backups. I'm surprised Paul didn't counter/bring that up but maybe he didn't think of it.

I like the idea, I think we need less artificial OB in general and maybe really punishing the bad shots that do land OB with stroke and distance but pace of play should be taken into consideration. Brodie hasn't played but one big event so maybe he hasn't had experience dealing with that.

I think one potential advantage DG has over Golf is speed of play. Stroke and distance would just drag play times out enormously. I do think there's an issue with visibility of OB though. To replicate the higher risk Brodie was calling for but maintain speed of play I think two stroke penalty OBs would be more effective.

In that discussion the question came up "why wouldn't we want to copy aspects of Golf that have worked for them?"
There are a number of issues with that:
1) How do we say for sure if one model of Golf over another represents a good change for Golf? I doubt there are viable studies on it.
2) Making the same changes now might not be straightforward given where we are in DG. I.e. how do we get to there from here? Nor is it necessarily going to have the same effect given a) golf exists, and b) other contributing factors may not be in place.
3) I have heard people mention that Golf is a shrinking and aging sport (still, from a much stronger position than DG) but I think that is a good counter to that rhetorical question. Are there any good sources that show the stats on Golf's demise?

Jimb 05-28-2020 03:44 PM

Here's a copy and paste from the first hit on a google search regarding shrinking numbers of golf courses. I just copied the headline that the search gave me and didn't click on the link myself.

Looks like the number of courses was diminishing at the time of the article, but it mentions "market correction". Obviously this is just the tip of the iceberg.

"The study -- titled "Golf Around The World" -- said there are 34,011 golf courses in the world, 45 percent of which are in the United States. The current total of 15,372 courses in the U.S. is down from a peak of 16,052 following a "gradual, but steady, market correction," the report said.Mar 11, 2015
ESPN.com › golf › story › number-...
Number of U.S. golf courses in steady decline, says report - ESPN.com"

Nick Pacific 05-28-2020 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jugular (Post 3590983)
I think one potential advantage DG has over Golf is speed of play. Stroke and distance would just drag play times out enormously. I do think there's an issue with visibility of OB though. To replicate the higher risk Brodie was calling for but maintain speed of play I think two stroke penalty OBs would be more effective.

One compromise that could be made would be that your first throw OB would always be stroke & distance then each subsequent shot that goes OB would only be stroked. This way it still hits someone with an extra penalty but also limits the rethrows and keeps pace of play into consideration. I think hole 17 at USDGC is doing this now or something similar?

Jugular 05-28-2020 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Pacific (Post 3591006)
One compromise that could be made would be that your first throw OB would always be stroke & distance then each subsequent shot that goes OB would only be stroked. This way it still hits someone with an extra penalty but also limits the rethrows and keeps pace of play into consideration. I think hole 17 at USDGC is doing this now or something similar?

The cost there is it adds rule complexity but doesn't speed it up very much (I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that players won't often go OB twice in a row). With stroke and distance isn't there usually a requirement that a dropzone is set out as well?

Bigtex 05-29-2020 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreadlock86 (Post 3590895)
yeah, i've been playing there 12 years. i know the routes


reasonable statements:
"i don't like the course"
"i don't like the new layout"
"i don't like the new holes"
"the new holes are not that difficult for me"


ridiculous statements:



i'm supposed to take it seriously when you say that 3 of the most wooded holes on the course are just as easy as some of the easiest holes on the old layout? hole 8 was by far the easiest on the course. 11 and 12 were basic as long as you didn't have a tree directly in front of your putt. 9 was the toughest of the RIP holes and new 12 is comparable but the gap is way further down the fairway, the fairway is way more narrow, and the road is on the tougher side (for BH).


so y'know what? i'd love to see you throw some easy birdies this Saturday. you let me know what time and i'll bring my camera.

Challenge accepted. I'll DM you my info.

BigFlickLuke 05-29-2020 02:04 AM

Make sure y'all social distance now.

wolfhaley 05-29-2020 04:15 AM

This should be interesting 🍿

Jolt 05-29-2020 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Pacific (Post 3590966)
Interesting ideas on promoting the idea of shrinking the OB areas/having less OB but always punishing it with stroke/distance. The main problem with stroke & distance is that in big events with lots of competitors is that it tends to cause backups. I'm surprised Paul didn't counter/bring that up but maybe he didn't think of it.

I like the idea, I think we need less artificial OB in general and maybe really punishing the bad shots that do land OB with stroke and distance but pace of play should be taken into consideration. Brodie hasn't played but one big event so maybe he hasn't had experience dealing with that.

I liked the part where Brodie talked about beginners disc selection and why discgolfers to often throws "what the pros throw"

Emoney 05-29-2020 03:45 PM

Im glad disc golf is coming back. Im getting a little tired of brodies and the foundation guys vids.

I understand he is trying to put out content, but im gonna avoid his vids until he gets back to a tournament.

Hopefully all this practice pays off for him!

wims 05-29-2020 04:55 PM

Yeah, I'm really missing tournament dg content on youtube. Some NTs and DGPTs

wolfhaley 05-30-2020 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emoney (Post 3591429)
Im glad disc golf is coming back. Im getting a little tired of brodies and the foundation guys vids.

I understand he is trying to put out content, but im gonna avoid his vids until he gets back to a tournament.

Hopefully all this practice pays off for him!

Agreed. That kind of stuff is great in the off-season but it's time for some real disc golf imo. Do we what events he's playing yet?

dreadlock86 05-30-2020 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emoney (Post 3590950)
Popcorn emoji

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFlickLuke (Post 3591174)
Make sure y'all social distance now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfhaley (Post 3591186)
This should be interesting 🍿


okay, raise your hand if you're surprised that a guy who calls himself Bigtex came out talking all kinds of $hit and then totally bailed out.


:rolleyes:


anyway, it was a beautiful day and i got in two rounds at Lake Park. lots of pedestrians out, tons of discers out, and there was a mini finishing up when i got there.

CTP on hole 1 for a disc giveaway at the mini so about 40-50 people were in a giant crowd right behind the teebox taking turns throwing. texans DGAF

wolfhaley 05-30-2020 09:03 PM

Well that's a shocker 😉

disco40 05-30-2020 09:34 PM

Good stuff in the last page or two lol.

The person claiming that difficult things are actually easy is usually putting himself in a tough spot no matter the subject. There's the occasional Tristan Tanner in the rough who maybe didn't realize he was actually superhuman, but the vast majority of these people fall into one of two buckets: the guy who can't back it up/isn't as good as he thinks, or the guy who really is good, but is a natural-born loser who can't translate his talent into success, so he picks on the people who aren't as talented.

Alyjos 05-31-2020 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreadlock86 (Post 3591737)
okay, raise your hand if you're surprised that a guy who calls himself Bigtex came out talking all kinds of $hit and then totally bailed out.


:rolleyes:


anyway, it was a beautiful day and i got in two rounds at Lake Park. lots of pedestrians out, tons of discers out, and there was a mini finishing up when i got there.

CTP on hole 1 for a disc giveaway at the mini so about 40-50 people were in a giant crowd right behind the teebox taking turns throwing. texans DGAF

You could nonchalantly throw from the tournament teebox or the actual teebox. Act like you're part of the ctp and just walk up and tap your throw in... Not serious..

I've given up going there on weekends for similar reasons. Getting to hole 7 and having to move to 8 due to the large number of people there is a bit discouraging. Then there's always a trail of folks going in front of the fairway on hole 6 who have zero idea that discs cross the same line they're walking on. Great course. My home course. Some days the back nine will do.

Sorry for off topic. Good to see locals on here.

DiscFifty 06-01-2020 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreadlock86 (Post 3591737)
okay, raise your hand if you're surprised that a guy who calls himself Bigtex came out talking all kinds of $hit and then totally bailed out.

:rolleyes:

lol.. I thought maybe it was a local pro who didn't want his name public, or perhaps it was a non pdga member who sandbags the local tournaments. (We have quite a few am "pros" in the DFW area. lol..)

But sure there ARE plenty of birdie ops at Old Man. Hell..I can birdie several holes, not consistently in one round....lol.

dreadlock86 06-01-2020 05:45 PM

full disclosure, i'm not a part of the tourney scene but... i feel like we're a big enough scene that we don't really have local pros. i know that might sound weird but there are enough Open players around that the idea seems to get irrelevant, even spread across 70+ courses in greater DFW. i'm also running off my best understanding of the term "local pro" as the clearly most-skilled player, ambassador for the sport, and go-to source for info/advice in a given region. maybe that's a bit off? is there a meaningful distinction between local pro and course pro?

not to diminish our pros, of course we do have Emerson Keith but there's also Nolan Grider (1013), Luke Humphries (1011), and a handful of other guys right around or just under 1000.


anyway, i don't know why any pro would pass on the opportunity to get some air-time. honestly, the holes we were talking about are not tough for a 1000 rated player, or even 970. wooded tunnels at 222', 287', 228 with fairly low ceilings. the first two are FH and the third is more of a turnover BH. the toughest thing for an open player on these holes are some flukey trees.

i was expecting an overconfident AM2 player with some FH distance and a chip on his shoulder. not sure which is funnier: seeing him chopping down trees or him not showing up.

jakebake91 06-01-2020 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreadlock86 (Post 3592285)
i was expecting an overconfident AM2 player with some FH distance and a chip on his shoulder. not sure which is funnier: seeing him chopping down trees or him not showing up.

Or not chiming in since his no show. Maybe his mom grounded him or something and he couldn't get out for the weekend..... computer rights clearly revoked too.

DiscFifty 06-02-2020 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreadlock86 (Post 3592285)
is there a meaningful distinction between local pro and course pro?

We (DFW) have a very active local pro scene, quite a few hover near the 1000 rated mark but due to the lack of higher rated players have a hard time reaching it. I've heard a few people describing "Course Pro" as someone involved with the design of the course, to someone who plays the same course often and knows all the "local routes". lol..

dreadlock86 06-02-2020 04:12 PM

those things don't make sense to me as a criteria. i feel like it could apply to too many AM1-AM2 players.

just like our perception of par, putting, level of difficulty, etc is not and should not be the same as golf, maybe i'm putting too much stock in the golf definition. that said, one should at least be a relatively (locally) successful Open player to be called a local pro or a course pro, IMO.

brutalbrutus 06-03-2020 05:48 PM

Brodie and McBeth at Toboggan?!


Hampstead 06-03-2020 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreadlock86 (Post 3592639)
those things don't make sense to me as a criteria. i feel like it could apply to too many AM1-AM2 players.

just like our perception of par, putting, level of difficulty, etc is not and should not be the same as golf, maybe i'm putting too much stock in the golf definition. that said, one should at least be a relatively (locally) successful Open player to be called a local pro or a course pro, IMO.

It's disc golf. Don't over think it.

dreadlock86 06-03-2020 10:11 PM

if you're compelled to reply, maybe you're overthinking it. :D

it's just people BSing on the internet

Hampstead 06-03-2020 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreadlock86 (Post 3593050)
if you're compelled to reply, maybe you're overthinking it. :D

it's just people BSing on the internet

You must be new here.




:|

dreadlock86 06-03-2020 11:12 PM

yeah, my first day. everyone is really nice!

dreadlock86 06-03-2020 11:21 PM

so knowledgable too!

ToddL 06-04-2020 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Pacific (Post 3590966)
Interesting ideas on promoting the idea of shrinking the OB areas/having less OB but always punishing it with stroke/distance. The main problem with stroke & distance is that in big events with lots of competitors is that it tends to cause backups. I'm surprised Paul didn't counter/bring that up but maybe he didn't think of it.

I like the idea, I think we need less artificial OB in general and maybe really punishing the bad shots that do land OB with stroke and distance but pace of play should be taken into consideration. Brodie hasn't played but one big event so maybe he hasn't had experience dealing with that.

His initial complaint about OB was misguided. "OB should be stroke and distance." "What, you don't like last spot in?" "That's a hazard, not OB."
His first couple of sentences were actually just complaining about the terminology, even though he didn't phrase it that way.

Less artificial OB? Sure, but I hate most people's arguments against it. "Disc golf shouldn't use 'artificial' OB and should use stuff like roads and sidewalks instead." Last I checked, roads and sidewalks are artificial as well. If you gave me a few million dollars per course I could get rid of all artificial OB by creating lakes and rivers everywhere and sculpting my fairways to the precise shapes I want. But instead I'm stuck in a 30 acre park with no real landscaping at all, so sometimes the OB rope gets brought out. Sorry not sorry.

DiscFifty 06-04-2020 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brutalbrutus (Post 3592996)
Brodie and McBeth at Toboggan?!


Not a fan of the Brodie intimidating Paul photo. Surprised Paul let that happen.

brutalbrutus 06-04-2020 02:17 AM

That's cause nobody can intimidate Paul…








...and especially not on that course.:D

wims 06-04-2020 12:05 PM

Yeah, Paul doesn't look very intimidated. Everybody knows that Paul would crush Brodie in DG

TheOtherBill 06-04-2020 12:29 PM

He needs to work on quitting the grunting when he throws. The other players will get fed up with that real quick when each throw can cost them $$.

Steve West 06-04-2020 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wims (Post 3593206)
Yeah, Paul doesn't look very intimidated. Everybody knows that Paul would crush Brodie in DG

The photo reminds me of the guy standing in front of the line of tanks. The tanks didn't win that one, either.

Nick Pacific 06-05-2020 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve West (Post 3593253)
The photo reminds me of the guy standing in front of the line of tanks. The tanks didn't win that one, either.

The "Tank Man" of Tiananmen square "disappeared" never to be seen again.....

biscoe 06-05-2020 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToddL (Post 3593093)
His initial complaint about OB was misguided. "OB should be stroke and distance." "What, you don't like last spot in?" "That's a hazard, not OB."
His first couple of sentences were actually just complaining about the terminology, even though he didn't phrase it that way.

I share his complaints with the terminology. God forbid they had used the same terms in the same way as the sport they were copying.

F. Howl 06-05-2020 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biscoe (Post 3593510)
I share his complaints with the terminology. God forbid they had used the same terms in the same way as the sport they were copying.

Calling it all OB and just designating certain holes like islands, stroke and distance, must have seemed cleaner. (Hazard/bunker rule is new to our sport, yeah?) One term or the other would have worked, and since sand bunkers and waist high vegetation don't really present a literal "hazard" to a throw, OB makes more sense.

And as far as stroke and distance on OB in golf, who actually marches back to the tee during a casual round? And we aren't going to have PDGA Rules Officials on every hole anytime soon.

brutalbrutus 06-05-2020 09:09 PM


disctildeath 06-09-2020 01:03 AM

Unfortunately, looks like another disc golfer has been hit with Lyme disease, hope his treatment goes well and he recovers soon.

DiscFifty 06-09-2020 04:54 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Prayers for Brodie.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:10 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.