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-   -   Brodie Smith PDGA #128378 (https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135632)

foxdawg10 06-07-2021 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ru4por (Post 3726222)
Lol.

What kind of grass?
Recently mowed?
How much grass?
Type of soil?
Wind?
Type of plastic?
Landing angle?
Landing topography?
Shade or sun?
Wet or dry grass?
Wet or dry soil?
Roots?
Rocks?

Just a couple more for you to ponder.

It sounds like you think too much out on the course, lol. Just throw the disc. All kidding aside, I highly doubt anyone takes all of these variables into play when out on the course.

ChrisWoj 06-07-2021 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxdawg10 (Post 3726400)
It sounds like you think too much out on the course, lol. Just throw the disc. All kidding aside, I highly doubt anyone takes all of these variables into play when out on the course.

Consistently? 3-8, and 10-11. 12-13 are kinda parcel with 3-4 - more as a thought of "what kind of ground am I landing on..."

glassila 06-07-2021 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxdawg10 (Post 3726400)
It sounds like you think too much out on the course, lol. Just throw the disc. All kidding aside, I highly doubt anyone takes all of these variables into play when out on the course.

I disagree. I think the majority of experienced players take all these factors into consideration on every throw.

BogeyNoMore 06-08-2021 12:13 AM

Ru4's list is straight up truth.

I definitely take the condition of the ground where I expect to land into consideration, and plan my shot accordingly. Hard packed ground that will always skip vs thick grass that grabs, vs grab that might allow a decent skip.

Do I want a skip or do I need to avoid skip?

What about the angle of the ground and potential for rollaway? How does my disc need to land to get the desired ground action?

I don't necessarily go through the list one at a time on every single shot, but I always assess the situation to determine which variables I need to consider on that given shot. Some courses require much more of that than others.

Flat, park style courses with fairly thick grass don't require you to run through all those variables except on maybe a few shots. On the other hand, DeLaveaga seemed to require that sort of analysis on damned near every single shot. That's one of the things that makes it such a demanding a course.

foxdawg10 06-08-2021 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glassila (Post 3726417)
I disagree. I think the majority of experienced players take all these factors into consideration on every throw.

Define experienced. I play with some guys who have been in the game 20+ years with decent ratings, and have never heard these variables mentioned, except when the situation called for it. Sun and shade? Sounds like grandmasters golf, lol. I'm not discounting these variables and maybe I just subconsciously take this into account, but by no means is it a checklist.

Ryan P. 06-08-2021 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxdawg10 (Post 3726459)
Define experienced. I play with some guys who have been in the game 20+ years with decent ratings, and have never heard these variables mentioned, except when the situation called for it. Sun and shade? Sounds like grandmasters golf, lol. I'm not discounting these variables and maybe I just subconsciously take this into account, but by no means is it a checklist.

For some it is definitely subconscious. Especially if you’re playing at a course you’ve played before.

ru4por 06-08-2021 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxdawg10 (Post 3726459)
Define experienced. I play with some guys who have been in the game 20+ years with decent ratings, and have never heard these variables mentioned, except when the situation called for it. Sun and shade? Sounds like grandmasters golf, lol. I'm not discounting these variables and maybe I just subconsciously take this into account, but by no means is it a checklist.

I think a running checklist of variables and visualizing your shot is an axiom of sports.

I suppose I could just head out to a course four days a week and just chuck every disc in the general direction of the basket, but I am there to challenge myself. I don't randomly pick a disc, I formulate a plan and choose a disc based on my plan. The list provided was most certainly an abridged version for disc landings. There are dozens more variable to consider with every shot, outside of the landing. This concept is crucial in the approach game. Have you ever considered the wind before throwing? Trees?

Sun/shade could easily have an effect on ground softness or moisture, impacting how a disc first reacts with ground strike.

Maybe we should have more YouTubes on course and game management to go along with the millions on how to throw 500'.

Yes, sun/shade is often a grandmaster consideration, but explaining that could take years.

foxdawg10 06-08-2021 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ru4por (Post 3726467)
I think a running checklist of variables and visualizing your shot is an axiom of sports.

I suppose I could just head out to a course four days a week and just chuck every disc in the general direction of the basket, but I am there to challenge myself. I don't randomly pick a disc, I formulate a plan and choose a disc based on my plan. The list provided was most certainly an abridged version for disc landings. There are dozens more variable to consider with every shot, outside of the landing. This concept is crucial in the approach game. Have you ever considered the wind before throwing? Trees?

Sun/shade could easily have an effect on ground softness or moisture, impacting how a disc first reacts with ground strike.

Maybe we should have more YouTubes on course and game management to go along with the millions on how to throw 500'.

Yes, sun/shade is often a grandmaster consideration, but explaining that could take years.


I completely agree that all these factors ultimately have an impact on the final outcome of the shot. What I was trying to say is I believe very few, if any, players are good enough to control these variables. You can't tell me you are good enough to hit an exact spot on a green from 300 feet out.

Btw, I am in my mid 50's so understand the sun/shade thing completely, lol.

Hampstead 06-08-2021 09:07 AM

Point is, for experienced players and those who pay attention, there's a lot more to a shot than simply "Overstable discs finish left", etc.

BogeyNoMore 06-08-2021 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxdawg10 (Post 3726470)
I completely agree that all these factors ultimately have an impact on the final outcome of the shot. What I was trying to say is I believe very few, if any, players are good enough to control these variables. You can't tell me you are good enough to hit an exact spot on a green from 300 feet out.

Btw, I am in my mid 50's so understand the sun/shade thing completely, lol.

You can't control them, but you can anticipate and account for them... and plan your shot accordingly.

Do we hit our intended landing spot every time? Enter skill and consistency. I sure as hell don't, but the 1050 boys do way more often than they don't.

But that doesn't mean that I don't plan to. I assess the situation in front of me, and plan a shot I think will maximize my benefit and minimize my risk, given my skill set.

klodkrawler05 06-08-2021 09:33 AM

One of the early Brodie videos with Mcbeth when they were out on course Mcbeth was explaining why he'd choose a BH over a FH for a particular approach and it came down to the type of surface they were landing on and the direction the disc was spinning when it touched the ground.
Anyone who thinks the pros aren't putting any more thought into the disc selection than "stable disc goes left, less stable disc goes less left" isn't actually paying attention.
I thought "gravity" last weekend was another good pro shot example, the play seems like it'd be a simple BH shot with a stable disc down the right side of the fairway and then swing left at the basket and use the hill as a backstop. Takes the one and only guardian tree out of play. Except the pros were actually just throwing straight discs at it, trying to just miss the tree left, then use the hill side for an anti skip to scrub off the rest of their speed and sit softly. Compared to the Am play spiking a hyzer into the hill and have the potential to roll away.
That's the most recent example I can think of, but OTB had a few examples too where they'd throw dumb hyzer BH's with a beefy fairway driver on one 290' hole and then the very next 375' hole they'd throw a putter off the tee because they needed to control the ground action better.

ru4por 06-08-2021 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxdawg10 (Post 3726470)
I completely agree that all these factors ultimately have an impact on the final outcome of the shot. What I was trying to say is I believe very few, if any, players are good enough to control these variables. You can't tell me you are good enough to hit an exact spot on a green from 300 feet out.

Btw, I am in my mid 50's so understand the sun/shade thing completely, lol.

I mean, we actually agree.

I have a hole at one course that is about 500'. I can't get there, but I accurately get out to 270 or so in the fairway. Leaves about 230' to the pin. I would usually work a midrange to the basket. But this green is a sharp downhill slope, the close left is poison ivy (no interest in going there, but a putt is available). The green is hard pack dirt and is wide open in the sun, ensuring NOTHING with stick.

I could throw a midrange hyzer.....landing 40' short and hope for a nice slide, but short of the green is pretty sticky grass.

I used to throw a Blowfly Blunt at this pin. Nice and sticky midrange, I don't bag it anymore. Now I pull out an ESP Chally and throw a nice high, lofty straight putter at the pin. I gives me the best chance to land flat, minimize skip and slide. Do I run through that list every time I play the hole....naw. I play the course enough to know. But, in a tournament, I will walk through the best scenario for each throw and try to make smart decisions based on the information.

Seems like this is what I often do walking to my next shot. I frequently have a semi plan made by the time I get to my disc.

Horsman 06-08-2021 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxdawg10 (Post 3726400)
It sounds like you think too much out on the course, lol. Just throw the disc. All kidding aside, I highly doubt anyone takes all of these variables into play when out on the course.

And this is a big difference between ok players and great players. Not saying Im great but I take all of those factors into consideration on every throw. Theres not too much thought to it either, its just natural to me.

ChrisWoj 06-08-2021 10:28 AM

The big thing is that the thought comes into play in the pre-shot routine. You're not "overthinking" things, you're thinking things through. When you're actually in the midst of the throw you throw the shot you know to achieve the desired result. The overthinking comes when you're still thinking about variables when you actually throw the disc.

glassila 06-08-2021 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxdawg10 (Post 3726400)
It sounds like you think too much out on the course, lol. Just throw the disc. All kidding aside, I highly doubt anyone takes all of these variables into play when out on the course.

For good athletes in all sports the brain factors dozens of variables instantly, “without thinking”. It doesn't go through a “check list”...it just happens.

What kind of grass?
Recently mowed?
How much grass?
Type of soil?
Wind?
Type of plastic?
Landing angle?
Landing topography?
Shade or sun?
Wet or dry grass?
Wet or dry soil?
Roots?
Rocks?

autocrosscrx 06-08-2021 11:02 AM

A lot of those are pretty redundant and just fluffing up a list.

I mean, you basically just need to know what kind of ground play you get. You don't need to know when the grass was mowed and where the blade was set on the mower.

foxdawg10 06-08-2021 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horsman (Post 3726495)
And this is a big difference between ok players and great players. Not saying Im great but I take all of those factors into consideration on every throw. Theres not too much thought to it either, its just natural to me.

You shouldn't assume anything. I'm ok where my game/rating are and don't wish to get into a peeing contest, lol. I don't assume I am better than you, please grant me the same respect.

Horsman 06-08-2021 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxdawg10 (Post 3726509)
You shouldn't assume anything. I'm ok where my game/rating are and don't wish to get into a peeing contest, lol. I don't assume I am better than you, please grant me the same respect.

Please dont read things into my responses that arent there. Never did I state that I was better than your nor did I infer that. Im also not trying to get into a pissing contest with anybody. Never did I assume Im better than you and vice versa. Please do a better job of fully reading posts before replying to them. If there has been any disrespect is has come by your hand.

BogeyNoMore 06-08-2021 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autocrosscrx (Post 3726506)
A lot of those are pretty redundant and just fluffing up a list.

I mean, you basically just need to know what kind of ground play you get. You don't need to know when the grass was mowed and where the blade was set on the mower.

I ask the park staff what the mower blade height was set to before every single throw.
Then figure out if the price of gas may have affected how often they mow. :|

Finally, I consult my horoscope and biorhythm.

foxdawg10 06-08-2021 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horsman (Post 3726514)
Please dont read things into my responses that arent there. Never did I state that I was better than your nor did I infer that. Im also not trying to get into a pissing contest with anybody. Never did I assume Im better than you and vice versa. Please do a better job of fully reading posts before replying to them. If there has been any disrespect is has come by your hand.

Please do a better job at wording your responses. When you start with the separating good from great stuff, it leans toward you thinking you are aiming toward great. For me it is still a fun game, I have no pretenses of being anything more than I am, which I think is better than alot.

You have your process, I have mine. It is what it is. Peace.

Horsman 06-08-2021 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxdawg10 (Post 3726516)
When you start with the separating good from great stuff, it leans toward you thinking you are aiming toward great.

False, I did not lean towards, think or infer that I am great. I even stated that Im not calling myself great. Again, do a better job of reading and do not assume false things on other people.

Martin Dewgarita 06-08-2021 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autocrosscrx (Post 3726506)
A lot of those are pretty redundant and just fluffing up a list.

I mean, you basically just need to know what kind of ground play you get. You don't need to know when the grass was mowed and where the blade was set on the mower.

You may not register *bermuda and rye set at 7/16"* vs *blue grass at 1 1/4" cut* some of us might, but that's not the point, you're going to approach that basket sitting on the [ball golf] fairway differently than you'll approach that basket sitting in the rough vs the basket in the woods on bare eroded soil with roots showing.

Hampstead 06-08-2021 12:16 PM

foxdawg has a history of misreading threads

Dcinmd 06-08-2021 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore (Post 3726515)
I ask the park staff what the mower blade height was set to before every single throw.
Then figure out if the price of gas may have affected how often they mow. :|

Finally, I consult my horoscope and biorhythm.

You joke but last month during the gas shortage on the east coast a few parks in the area didn't mow for a couple of weeks.

ChrisWoj 06-08-2021 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dcinmd (Post 3726572)
You joke but last month during the gas shortage on the east coast a few parks in the area didn't mow for a couple of weeks.

Around here (NW Ohio, Black Swamp region) many parks won't mow the entire course until after Memorial Day. We wind up with near-knee-high grasses and weeds until then because it is favorable to the alternative of completely chewed up fairways where the tractor mowers get stuck and try to grind their way out. Low ceiling shots play very different depending on if we're pre- or post-holiday.

wims 06-08-2021 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxdawg10 (Post 3726509)
You shouldn't assume anything. I'm ok where my game/rating are and don't wish to get into a peeing contest, lol. I don't assume I am better than you, please grant me the same respect.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and claim that Horsman is better than you :D

disco40 06-08-2021 02:35 PM

Love the direction the discussion went. For doubters of how many factors are calculated in the brain, both consciously and subconsciously, think about a short approach with a complicated or serious landing area. You're thinking about a lot of things! The pros think about those things from further out, with faster discs. The better players throwing a midrange shot are probably factoring in as many things as you do on a short approach.

I've noticed in the last couple of years that pros on coverage seem to be getting a little better with landing angles.

brutalbrutus 06-08-2021 02:55 PM

+1 1008

brutalbrutus 06-08-2021 03:02 PM

looks like the knee is starting to give him some problems...

https://twitter.com/Brodiesmith21/st...14023937347586
Quote:

@Brodiesmith2 11:18 PM · Jun 8, 2021
Got an update from the doctor. No major tear or surgery needed. I do have really bad bursitis in my left knee. Will be getting more information later today. Thanks for all the prayers.
He has some highlights from PO on his twitter and is wearing a small wrap on the left knee. Maybe that's why he didn't play very well in the first round?...

foxdawg10 06-08-2021 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ru4por (Post 3726492)
I mean, we actually agree.

I have a hole at one course that is about 500'. I can't get there, but I accurately get out to 270 or so in the fairway. Leaves about 230' to the pin. I would usually work a midrange to the basket. But this green is a sharp downhill slope, the close left is poison ivy (no interest in going there, but a putt is available). The green is hard pack dirt and is wide open in the sun, ensuring NOTHING with stick.

I could throw a midrange hyzer.....landing 40' short and hope for a nice slide, but short of the green is pretty sticky grass.

I used to throw a Blowfly Blunt at this pin. Nice and sticky midrange, I don't bag it anymore. Now I pull out an ESP Chally and throw a nice high, lofty straight putter at the pin. I gives me the best chance to land flat, minimize skip and slide. Do I run through that list every time I play the hole....naw. I play the course enough to know. But, in a tournament, I will walk through the best scenario for each throw and try to make smart decisions based on the information.

Seems like this is what I often do walking to my next shot. I frequently have a semi plan made by the time I get to my disc.

Blowfly was a fun disc to throw! I still throw mine in the bag once in a while on short wooded courses just to have some fun.

foxdawg10 06-08-2021 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wims (Post 3726601)
I'm gonna go out on a limb and claim that Horsman is better than you :D

lol, I'm guessing this as well, seeing that he is 1000 rated.

foxdawg10 06-08-2021 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horsman (Post 3726521)
False, I did not lean towards, think or infer that I am great. I even stated that Im not calling myself great. Again, do a better job of reading and do not assume false things on other people.

C'mon man, why do you have to keep going here. We can go around in circles, but I have some laundry and vacumming to do.

Believe it or not, maybe you aren't the clearest communicator, and you may or may not be aware, but intention isn't always easy to pick up on line. I trust that your intention is good, but your approach is kinda antagonistic, just saying.

foxdawg10 06-08-2021 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glassila (Post 3726497)
For good athletes in all sports the brain factors dozens of variables instantly, “without thinking”. It doesn't go through a “check list”...it just happens.

What kind of grass?
Recently mowed?
How much grass?
Type of soil?
Wind?
Type of plastic?
Landing angle?
Landing topography?
Shade or sun?
Wet or dry grass?
Wet or dry soil?
Roots?
Rocks?

^ I couldn't have said it better myself.

txmxer 06-08-2021 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxdawg10 (Post 3726767)
C'mon man, why do you have to keep going here. We can go around in circles, but I have some laundry and vacumming to do.

Believe it or not, maybe you aren't the clearest communicator, and you may or may not be aware, but intention isn't always easy to pick up on line. I trust that your intention is good, but your approach is kinda antagonistic, just saying.

Not saying this to be a dick, but I did not read that he was claiming to be better than you or insulting you in that post.



JMO.

foxdawg10 06-08-2021 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txmxer (Post 3726782)
Not saying this to be a dick, but I did not read that he was claiming to be better than you or insulting you in that post.



JMO.

Thank you for your feedback. I really didn't take it personally. I was more busting his chops for trying to comparing himself to the greats, lolol.

DanJon 06-09-2021 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxdawg10 (Post 3726459)
Define experienced. I play with some guys who have been in the game 20+ years with decent ratings, and have never heard these variables mentioned, except when the situation called for it. Sun and shade? Sounds like grandmasters golf, lol. I'm not discounting these variables and maybe I just subconsciously take this into account, but by no means is it a checklist.


I know that I always announce what I'm thinking to the group before I throw.

robdeforge 06-09-2021 06:40 AM

classic brodie, randomly shows up in the comment section of a reddit post about a tweet of his and digs the hole wayyyyy deeper

https://www.reddit.com/r/discgolf/co...golf_politics/

jakebake91 06-09-2021 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robdeforge (Post 3726829)
classic brodie, randomly shows up in the comment section of a reddit post about a tweet of his and digs the hole wayyyyy deeper

https://www.reddit.com/r/discgolf/co...golf_politics/

I can't seem to see what Brodie said..... anybody give a quick recap? I can only imagine based on the post in question....

robdeforge 06-09-2021 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakebake91 (Post 3726841)
I can't seem to see what Brodie said..... anybody give a quick recap? I can only imagine based on the post in question....

he's user GBtwin21 in the replies

bs: This also wasn’t a post about politics. It was more directed towards sports. Saw a lot of people making excuses for why they haven’t done something yet.

op: Even with sports, privilege absolutely comes into play. Overcoming adversity is great to advocate for. Telling people without certain inherent advantages that they're "soft" for not succeeding is kinda wack...

bs: This is pretty motivating. Maybe I should have just tweeted this out https://youtu.be/XKDdU5XSMe8

op: Hahahahahaha ok. This video is hilarious. Again yeah that's cool to like.. Encourage people to exercise more but show that **** to a poor kid living on the street who's dream is to play basketball... But he's gotta work after school so he can't join the team, or his parents aren't there and no one else wants to help him. Personal responsibility is super important but not everything boils down to, "TRY HARDER MOTHER****ER OR YOU DON'T DESERVE TO WIN."

My point is other people being more successful in whatever sense you want to consider success can absolutely be excused by knowing that they have more advantages/privileges.

bs: https://www.gamedaynews.com/athletes...ios=1&safari=1

My point I was trying to make was to stop making excuses or stop listening to people that tell you, you can’t do something.

op: I get the point. I don't think you conveyed it well. Seems like I'm not the only one.

I think for some people it comes off similar to people who look at a homeless person and just assume they didn't work hard enough.

bs: Not really understanding your example. I would guess most homeless people got in that situation from bad choices.

Barefoot744 06-09-2021 09:40 AM

There seems to be some major internet meltdown over;

"The only person who can stop you from reaching your goals is you." (wish a clip video from the Portland Open)


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