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-   -   Keeley Park, Greensboro, NC (https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104970)

Tenacious EJ 05-01-2014 03:36 PM

Keeley Park, Greensboro, NC
 
Spoke with Keeley Park's manager, Tony Royal, today after walking around the beautiful park. We spoke for nearly half an hour, and what I heard was pretty exciting, considering. Mr. Royal told me that further projects at the park are stalled due to the current construction of the outer loop around the city, 840. The construction has forced the movement of the high tower power lines that run alongside and through the park. Mr. Royal told me that he wants everything at the park to be "high end," and that he wants it done right, so to keep from tearing down and moving the course due to construction, he's waiting to lay down the course. There is another chunk of land he thinks will be added to the park, which may play a factor as well.

Mr. Royal is clearly enthusiastic about the course, and he wants a nice one. He showed me the current course map, which he didn't design and he doesn't know who did, but he admits he doesn't play and would welcome help in laying out the disc golf course, as the proposed course map is pretty much out of date due to the changes to the park. He also would welcome and appreciate help from the public to help get the course installed. He believes there is room for 18 holes, but again, admits he doesn't know what a course looks like, other than Barber Park, which is probably good, since most of Barber Park's holes are fairly long.

I can tell you there are some low-lying areas in the park, so I don't know where those will fall, but there are also some nice elevation changes as well as the potential for throwing straight under the towers. The park itself is first rate, and once the loop around Greensboro is finished an exit will be opened at the Rankin Mill Rd exit, making it extremely easy to get to the park from 40. I didn't broach the subject of multiple tees and pin placements, but just talking to him it's clear he is behind a course at Keeley. I hope when the time comes we can show up with a good number of volunteers to help build a signature course for Greensboro.:hfive:

Tenacious EJ 05-01-2014 03:59 PM

http://primenc.com/wp-content/upload...-site-plan.jpg

Incidentally, this is the original park map. It's really hard to see, because the disc golf course is laid out in yellow, but eventually a redesign will be required. The baseball fields cannot be placed where the current design has them due to septic systems underneath. The current plan which has not been laid out, is for the fields to be just right of the maintenance building at the upper right. This is good, because that area where the fields were proposed has some nice elevation to it. Neither the electrical lines nor the proposed loop locations are final.

BrotherDave 05-01-2014 07:38 PM

Very cool. Make sure those low lying areas don't flood a lot, could be undesirable.

BraveThrower43 05-01-2014 09:08 PM

Great news! The triad could use anouther good course

DSmith 05-01-2014 09:36 PM

Last I heard they were waiting on the money for phase 2 of the master plan to be released. Also the course on the master plan is just a mock up of where Site Solutions thought the course should go, not what an actual designer might lay out. (There was a thread about this a while back that Adam Caudel posted)

The design can go 2 ways here;
They decide to get the first hack who comes along to layout the course, for free.
or
They let the architect firm they use located in Charlotte (Site Solutions?) to contract out who will do the design, probably Innova and since Parks are notorious for being cheap, probably Russell.

Bonus Comedy option;
I can try and get ahold of the powers that be with Greensboro Parks and Rec and put a bug in their ear that I'd be willing to do the layout, for a nominal fee of course. ;) Of the 2 course projects I had open, one just went in the ground and the other is waiting till sometime this month to see if we got the grant money. I've got a 3rd in the works but I may wait till the fall to work on that layout.
I've walked the Keeley property extensively already over the last few years while waiting and have a good Idea what is out there.

DSmith 05-01-2014 09:40 PM

Hey there s that pesky thread!

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums...ad.php?t=11620

Tenacious EJ 05-02-2014 12:29 AM

Yes, I couldn't repost on it or I would have. In any event, due to pretty extensive changes to the land itself that course won't be built. I can tell you the City is cheap and broke, and I seriously doubt they'd pay anyone to design a course for them. For some reason the city council refuses to consider citizens paying for extravagances like the water parks, even at just $1 a head. Free golf is great, but I doubt many would balk at paying $2 to play a great course. The mgr and I are going to meet again when the park layout is finalized, so we can go from there, but for now it's just good to know it's definitely something we can look forward to.

DSmith 05-02-2014 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenacious EJ (Post 2443622)
Yes, I couldn't repost on it or I would have. In any event, due to pretty extensive changes to the land itself that course won't be built. I can tell you the City is cheap and broke, and I seriously doubt they'd pay anyone to design a course for them. For some reason the city council refuses to consider citizens paying for extravagances like the water parks, even at just $1 a head. Free golf is great, but I doubt many would balk at paying $2 to play a great course. The mgr and I are going to meet again when the park layout is finalized, so we can go from there, but for now it's just good to know it's definitely something we can look forward to.


I was kinda hoping I didnt come off snarky in my post. The internet has a way of adding snark.
That being said, the city is cheap but not broke like you think and they do pay people to design park elements. Of course our problem is that everyone thinks they can design a course just because they are a disc golfer. Actually Ive heard that from parks here. "All disc golfers think they are course designers"
I digress.
Most if not all Parks Departments have a set budget which is usually pretty slim except for the years when state grant money is available for major projects. This last fiscal year was such for NC (June-June) and quite a few cities put in bids for a chunk of money. This is what I'm waiting on for the Jamestown course.
On other years city council or the town managers or whomever is in charge of the budget sets the budget for P&R. A fine example was when Lexington City Council approved a budget for 2 disc golf courses for $150k. Now I'm sure your saying that that is way too much money for 2 courses, but it got approved almost unanimously. Of course it got vetoed by the Mayor but still the fact it got that far is an indicator that the money is there if you go about getting it the right way.

So I'm sure your saying "Man 75k for a disc golf course is way too much" Well thats because Parks and Rec was planning on paying the contractors to do the work (as well as holding onto the left over funds for other projects).

I have nothing personal against designing a course for free, but its pretty stupid to ignore the fact that everyone else is getting paid and not me.

10-20% designer fee off a 75k project is $7500-$15000

We need to start getting paid, people!

:hfive:

sloppydisc 05-02-2014 09:49 AM

If you want designers to be paid that kind of money then designers need to have a resume built up that would justify the $$. Or maybe the PDGA needs some type of designer program where designers can become accredited by the PDGA or another reputable organization so that parks departments feel comfortable that someone with a clue is doing the work. I know they had a designer conference, and that is a great first step, but there are a lot of unsafe courses getting put in right now.

There are probably very few designers in each state that have a resume which would lead a smart park's department manager to say, "yeah, I'll hand this guy a $10k check.

BrotherDave 05-02-2014 12:45 PM

There does need to be a vetting process to weed out all these armchair course designer hacks. On the other hand, that would weed me out of helping to design a better course than what some hacks would put in. :\

"You get what you pay for" is generally true but I fear that the chance of a park hiring a swindler that does a bad job (Schwartz *cough* *cough*) is just as high as getting a hack to do it for free.

This area needs a collective group of people who know what the hell they are talking about to ally instead of having a bunch of separate hands doing nothing and just complaining.

DSmith 06-11-2014 04:18 PM

I had some recent talks and wheeling and dealing and sent in some info that was requested for a budget. I also looked at maybe using the area by the park road and the woods in front for routing a few holes. Just a random idea I had. I'm not gonna go into any specific details on who or what we talked about other than the project may finally be moving forward.
Keep your little fingers crossed!
If we get past this hurdle and we get a greenlight It looks like it'll be either a Red/Blue course or a White/Gold. My goal is to make it a legit par 72 since there is a ton of room. Non of this lady par 61's or 62's. Big manly 72 par.

Tenacious EJ 06-11-2014 08:08 PM

I agree about the area by the park road- there are at least two decent holes in there. I have no problem with a decent sized course, but my personal opinion is this: if you build it, they will play, whether they're good at it or not. This is doubly true for public courses. I personally want to avoid beginners and family back-ups who are languishing on pro-level holes that are out of their league. I feel a public park should provide for beginners and advanced players alike, when possible. As a father, I often have no choice but to take my kids when I play, and the forced march through a park like Springwood tires them out and starts to bore them. The ideal is closer to something like Valley Springs, with 3 levels of play for players of all skill level. Again, this is Greensboro, and it's run by idiots, so what can be done will probably be limited, and I understand all this.

On a side note- I miss being able to throw through a electrical tower, since they ruined my favorite hole at Johnson St. That would be a cool hole design, a mando under a tower.

DSmith 06-11-2014 10:48 PM

Ok, well anyways, I was kidding about the gold level thing and the par 72. It will be Red/Blue level which means 2 tees per hole, Red level which is 850 rated and Blue which is 950 rated.
Again
2 tee pads per hole (unless it's not needed)
2 different skill level layouts
one for beginners
one for advanced players

The area up front is only an option for now and wont yield alot of holes on its own. It may also help with the routing since it looks like I may have to hub out of that parking lot.

Some courses are long and take a long time to play, like Idlewild, Renny, but it doesnt make them bad courses. If you play a round at Keeley it probably wont be a quick one.
I will look into having a loop within the course where you can play a shorter round or continue on and play the full layout. As far as "the ideal" we already have Johnson Street. There's no reason to make a clone of it.

BrotherDave 06-12-2014 12:43 PM

Sounds good D. You have my shield.

Tenacious EJ 06-12-2014 05:03 PM

I'm certainly not suggesting a clone of Johnson St., I was saying I'd like to see a course where everyone can play without it being too hard for beginners or too easy for veterans. What you're proposing sounds pretty ideal to me.

DSmith 12-19-2014 06:35 AM

I figured I'd give you guys an update. I have a meeting with Parks mid January to go over some items such as funding and presenting a few routing options. Its looking good so far. One of the things I will have to keep in mind is the second phase of the master plan. The local club is planning an Icebowl on a temp course they created which looks pretty good. If you want to get a taste of what's to come then come on out for the icebowl.

keltik 12-19-2014 07:10 AM

This is all very interesting.

Tenacious EJ 12-21-2014 09:52 AM

When is the Icebowl, Drew?

DSmith 12-21-2014 08:41 PM

Looking at 28th of February so far.

BraveThrower43 12-22-2014 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSmith (Post 2653159)
Looking at 28th of February so far.

I may try and make it up there for that. 2 rounds?

hoppedup 09-11-2015 08:25 AM

Any news on this one?

DSmith 09-13-2015 09:21 PM

We are waiting on the next master plan update.

DSmith 09-24-2015 12:19 PM

So;
The master plan update meeting should be this November. Of course I wont find out until right before. I'll post up when I get word. They are still shooting for 2016 which means probably Mid year before they break ground on anything at the earliest. Theres a few tweaks to the layout I need to do plus whatever changes according to new infrastructure. At least it'll be early winter this year that I can go back out and work on stuff.

hoppedup 09-24-2015 02:52 PM

Thanks for the update.

Tenacious EJ 07-08-2016 10:12 AM

Any news? I've heard that the course will wind thru a mountain bike trail like Northeast ��. Wish they'd hurry up and finish that highway.

DSmith 07-21-2016 09:42 AM

The club sent an email requesting an update. Still waiting on a reply. You know how that goes. They were waiting on confirmation of the PARTF grant. As I said before, responding to emails isnt one of any parks and recs strong suits. The area that we'll get to use for the discgolf course has also shrunk considerably. Still workable, just not the acreage we wanted.

Pymm 07-21-2016 10:10 AM

Man, I have never heard of this plan. It's great news, as I live in Greensboro. I mostly play the Patriot in Kernersville these days with the construction going on at Barber. It would be awesome to have another course to play near by. Thanks for all the info/updates on it.

BrotherDave 11-09-2016 10:08 PM

Well Greensboro just voted in a Parks & Rec bond. Any chance that helps get a course here or in Greensboro in general anytime soon?

:popcorn:

DSmith 11-10-2016 08:17 AM

I wouldnt hold your breath. Have you been out to Stonewall yet, Dave?

BrotherDave 11-12-2016 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSmith (Post 3096151)
I wouldnt hold your breath. Have you been out to Stonewall yet, Dave?

Just heard of it, lol. How is it? Ought to be good to have a ball golf style course to complement Horizons up there.

DSmith 11-12-2016 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrotherDave (Post 3096902)
Just heard of it, lol. How is it? Ought to be good to have a ball golf style course to complement Horizons up there.

Its way better than anything in the Greensboro area for sure.

TheTeeboxCo._Levi B. 03-14-2018 10:23 AM

How's it going Drew?

DSmith 03-19-2018 07:42 AM

I swung by the park to talk to the park manager to see if he knew of any developments on the PARTF Grant and of course hes not there, he's transferred to another park and the new manager was out on holiday. I did talk to the new assistant and he said nothing is going to happen until June of this year if it does.
This was back in end of December or January.
Someone contacted me last week asking the same thing and he was going to take a stab at trying to pry info from GPR on what the heck is going on. maybe he'll answer my message I sent him or post up here.

Anyway in the mean time North East is back up aka Holly Run and we are winding down construction and getting ready for a huge grand re-opening on April 21st. I also am about to jump into another course project, not in Greensboro, so I'v been pretty busy. If Keeley happens finally and they want me to do the design I'd be down to do it since its local. I just dont have time to chase down people to get non-answers right now.
:( :):( :):( :) :( :)

Tenacious EJ 03-27-2019 02:33 PM

Itís been a year since the last update. I started this in 2014 and 5 years later still no movement? Greensboro is a hole, man. Anybody heard anything about this?

BraveThrower43 05-23-2019 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenacious EJ (Post 3433845)
Itís been a year since the last update. I started this in 2014 and 5 years later still no movement? Greensboro is a hole, man. Anybody heard anything about this?

Innova won the Design bid several months ago from what I heard. I assume the build and everything is funded either this fiscal year(July 2018-July 2019) or the next (July 2019-July 2020)

DSmith 05-27-2019 03:16 PM

They've started the cut/clearing back toward the end of April. I heard Andrew Duvall is heading it up.


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