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biscoe 06-21-2021 12:51 PM

Wholesale customers can order P2's tomorrow for delivery in September.

Their demand is going to exceed their supply for quite some time I would imagine- same as everyone else in the industry.

soothsayer 06-21-2021 12:52 PM

So, on this page https://www.discmania.net/pages/next there is a video where Jussi says that the machine producing the P2s will run "until the demand is met" and he promises that everybody who wants them will get them. Thats pretty sick.

SuperWookie 06-21-2021 12:55 PM

Really happy to see DM take matters into their own hands and make the right decision. Producing their own discs was the right call and allows them to control everything now! Which keeps Simon and Eagle with them, and I'm sure most people that said they "left for good" will probably come back once they see how good the new plastic and discs are.

Obviously, still no idea IF they are good or not, but I don't think they'd invest so much money into a new production facility, only to make discs nobody wants. Seems exciting and hopefully they can keep up with the demand for the discs as they are released. AND keep prices reasonable. Great start for DM for sure, now lets see if they can back it up with good plastic, good molds, fair prices and have plenty of stock for everyone :thmbup:

biscoe 06-21-2021 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolt (Post 3730166)
Wonder what Innova thinks of this? . . and Lat64, if Discmania can make the Original by them self, why not make ALL the disc them self?

Or is it Lat 64 that have helped Discmania to set up this new factory?

Sounds like Latitude will be out of the Discmania biz soon. Press release said Discmania will be making the Evolution line in house.

Jolt 06-21-2021 12:57 PM

After they get the stock up for alla the Originals. . .wonder if they have plan for any "new "new Originals" ? ...lets say a P4

Jolt 06-21-2021 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biscoe (Post 3730175)
Sounds like Latitude will be out of the Discmania biz soon. Press release said Discmania will be making the Evolution line in house.

OR the new Factory IS a part of Lat64 factory..why else make them in Sweden?

This makes me think that Lat64 is part of this and this Discmania factory really is a part of Lat64 factory that only makes Discmania discs.

biscoe 06-21-2021 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolt (Post 3730179)
OR the new Factory IS a part of Lat64 factory..why else make them in Sweden?

This makes me think that Lat64 is part of this and this Discmania factory really is a part of Lat64 factory that only makes Discmania discs.

Jussi is a hype man at heart but that is not how it came across to me with video of their new facility. Latitude can't keep up with their own production needs currently to begin with. Believe what you will.

BillFleming 06-21-2021 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biscoe (Post 3730175)
Sounds like Latitude will be out of the Discmania biz soon. Press release said Discmania will be making the Evolution line in house.

Could be that Discmania's discussion/contract with Latitude64 was "would you please make these discs for us while we get our new manufacturing plant/process up and running?".

Might have the same deal with Yikun.

1. Get plant up and running making Originals. Once caught up...
2. Take over making Evolution line in house....then...
3. Take over making the Active like in house.

BillFleming 06-21-2021 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolt (Post 3730179)
OR the new Factory IS a part of Lat64 factory..why else make them in Sweden?

This makes me think that Lat64 is part of this and this Discmania factory really is a part of Lat64 factory that only makes Discmania discs.

Maybe an agreement to help each other out with making discs when needed?

DM: Lat64, you were a big help to use by making the Evo line while we built our own plant/process. We really appreciate it...so if you are ever in a bind, we are close enough for you to bring your molds over and we can help you out.

Jolt 06-21-2021 01:17 PM

Why else would a Finnish brand make their discs in a small town in Sweden. . a town that just happens to be the home of Lat64?

The only link to Sweden that Discmania have is Lat64. . .wierd place to build a new factory if their plan is to break of from Lat64

Rastnav 06-21-2021 01:29 PM

Most especially because of the location of the new factory (same place as Latitude), my guess is that Discmania entered into some sort of limited partnership or contract with Latitude 64 wherein Discmania secured the services of Lat64 in learning the disc design and disc manufacture process. Part of that agreement likely included the manufacture of the the first several years of the Evolution line. It would be completely unsurprising to me if Lat64 now had some sort of ownership stake in Discmania, given that companies typically don’t like to just help set up a competitor.

The pain of the last few years was going to be gone through whenever they decided to set up their own manufacturing. For everyone who thought they should have done it “earlier”, all that would have done is produce the exact same pain while DM was in a less stable position, market wise. The only thing that would have mitigated that is if Innova was the company that had set up DM with manufacturing.

So, did Innova get a shot at this? Or did it just make the most sense for a Finnish company to partner with a well established, but not market leading, European manufacturer of very high quality discs? I’d guess the latter, but it’s possible that Innova wasn’t interested on the same terms that Lat64 was.

seedlings 06-21-2021 01:32 PM

Well done Discmania. Seems like a fairy tale, but I’m looking forward to throwing your plastic again.

Jolt 06-21-2021 01:39 PM

Can Simon putt with the new P2 in Worlds or does it have to be approved again...i guess not as they start to sell tomorow

soothsayer 06-21-2021 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolt (Post 3730204)
Can Simon putt with the new P2 in Worlds or does it have to be approved again...i guess not as they start to sell tomorow

I feel like they won't start throwing the new plastic until after Worlds, just for consistency sake. But who knows? Maybe thats why Jussi did the announcement the day before Worlds starts, so everyone will be talking about it on coverage and stuff... on second thought, thats DEFINITELY why Jussi did it. :thmbup:

biscoe 06-21-2021 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keller (Post 3730163)
Be interested to see what the prices will be.

Originals D-Line will have the following pricing structure:
MAP $11.99
MSRP $12.99

soothsayer 06-21-2021 02:05 PM

I reaaaally hope that the new "D-line" plastic is closer to Innovas version than to Exo or Geo plastic. Not really a fan of those Lat64 baseline plastics.

Keller 06-21-2021 02:18 PM

Has there been any comments from Innova on any of this?

Jolt 06-21-2021 02:24 PM

how long before an S-line disc comes out?

Eagle and Simon is "odd", they throw mostly C-line type drivers,,,,feel like most other Pros throw S-line, ESP, Star type plastic in their drivers.

biscoe 06-21-2021 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keller (Post 3730230)
Has there been any comments from Innova on any of this?

What would they say besides "good luck, it's been great, blah blah blah" none of which they would actually mean.

Jolt 06-21-2021 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biscoe (Post 3730241)
What would they say besides "good luck, it's been great, blah blah blah" none of which they would actually mean.

They could say. . "if you want the real Originals and not wait for a copy we are going to make those originals under a new name for Infinite"

.....not that i think that+s going to happen.....but they COULD do it

dehaas 06-21-2021 03:12 PM

Could be possible that on the business end there are advantages to having the facility in Sweden vs Finland? Same reason why the DM US facility moved from Cali to Colorado a couple years ago.

I’d be curious if DM will be doing their own design moving forward, or an agreement where Tomas still does the design, but DM owns the molds afterwards.

Gotta figure they learned from the difficulties of the Innova relationship and took steps to avoid them this time around.

Flick Maniac 06-21-2021 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biscoe (Post 3730241)
What would they say besides "good luck, it's been great, blah blah blah" none of which they would actually mean.

They could at least be a good sport and say that.

Never thought a day at the roundy piece of plastic business that is my hobby could be this exciting

Lets hope Worlds delivers on the excitement front too

seedlings 06-21-2021 03:50 PM

If my wife ever gets into disc golf, it might be for the drama.

Horsman 06-21-2021 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keller (Post 3730230)
Has there been any comments from Innova on any of this?

Do they need to comment

soothsayer 06-21-2021 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolt (Post 3730251)
They could say. . "if you want the real Originals and not wait for a copy we are going to make those originals under a new name for Infinite"

.....not that i think that+s going to happen.....but they COULD do it

oh, it is definitely going to happen!:popcorn::popcorn:

soothsayer 06-21-2021 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horsman (Post 3730271)
Do they need to comment

Nah. Dave Dunnipace isn't losing sleep over this.

jakebake91 06-21-2021 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soothsayer (Post 3730295)
oh, it is definitely going to happen!:popcorn::popcorn:

I'd agree too. Unless some sort of deal was struck.

Purra 06-21-2021 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolt (Post 3730194)
Why else would a Finnish brand make their discs in a small town in Sweden. . a town that just happens to be the home of Lat64?

The only link to Sweden that Discmania have is Lat64. . .wierd place to build a new factory if their plan is to break of from Lat64

Yupp and it’s like 200 meters between the factories , they are more or less on the same street (not same street name tho )

Rastnav 06-21-2021 04:38 PM

I would think that Innova actually referencing the OL names in any promotion material for newly named discs released by them or Infinite could constitute trademark infringement.

But, I am not a lawyer.

Keller 06-21-2021 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horsman (Post 3730271)
Do they need to comment

No, I guess not.

A few words might nice though.

sandelius 06-21-2021 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soothsayer (Post 3730225)
I reaaaally hope that the new "D-line" plastic is closer to Innovas version than to Exo or Geo plastic. Not really a fan of those Lat64 baseline plastics.

Exo hard and Geo are way better and than D-line. And I'm talking about the best runs of D-line.

Horsman 06-21-2021 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandelius (Post 3730349)
Exo hard and Geo are way better and than D-line. And I'm talking about the best runs of D-line.

Those be fighting words

soothsayer 06-21-2021 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rastnav (Post 3730305)
I would think that Innova actually referencing the OL names in any promotion material for newly named discs released by them or Infinite could constitute trademark infringement.

But, I am not a lawyer.

yeah for sure, its probably going to be more of a "wink wink" situation from Infinite like they do when the release their discs and tell us they are "similar" to a Coyote (Anubis). They'll release something and say its "similar" to the beloved Discmania FD or something like that.

soothsayer 06-21-2021 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandelius (Post 3730349)
Exo hard and Geo are way better and than D-line. And I'm talking about the best runs of D-line.

Fake news of the highest degree.

Rastnav 06-21-2021 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soothsayer (Post 3730384)
yeah for sure, its probably going to be more of a "wink wink" situation from Infinite like they do when the release their discs and tell us they are "similar" to a Coyote (Anubis). They'll release something and say its "similar" to the beloved Discmania FD or something like that.

Innova and it’s partners referencing other Innova products is one thing. them coming out with a a disc and marketing it as “just like a Buzzz” would be different.

Say you advertised your theme park and said you had an indoor roller coaster with a space theme, “Galaxy Peak, like Space Mountain”, I think Disney would come after you pretty hard. And that’s without the whole prior relationship between Innova and Discmania wherein Discmania owned the names of the discs. If Innova actually referenced those names when marketing the “new” discs, it would certainly be infringing on Discmania's IP. I would assume they’d have a case that Innova was intending to use DM's trademark for their own gain.

biscoe 06-21-2021 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rastnav (Post 3730305)
I would think that Innova actually referencing the OL names in any promotion material for newly named discs released by them or Infinite could constitute trademark infringement.

But, I am not a lawyer.

Innova/Infinite/Whoever wouldn't need to do it- social media will do it for them.

DinosaurThunder 06-21-2021 07:41 PM

What’s the saying? You can put feathers on your back but you’re still not a chicken?

You can try and copy a P2, but it’s still not a P2..

Hats of the DM guys for finally pulling off their own production. It will be interesting to see how the plastic compares/holds up. Impressive facility they have on their hands and well produced video introducing it. Makes you wonder why their distribution center is in Colorado, with this most likely being in their long term goal planning. Should have setup shop near one of the east coast ports.

Sale and ISO posts will be a fun mouthful now - ISO of Innova Produced d-line P2 from 2015 with the mini store stamp penned.

DiscT 06-21-2021 07:53 PM

So does “reinvented” mean new plastic/manufacturer or does it mean new mold entirely (+old name)? I’ve been combing the thread/video and can’t seem to find a definitive answer, unless I missed it or lost my Lucky Charms decoder ring…

BruisedOoze 06-21-2021 08:12 PM

Somewhat related question, but is there a list out there of what disc names are trademarked? For example, a cursory search shows Teebird as being trademarked.

Was curious as to which disc names are protected, and how that would apply here.

While bumbling around it seems the Discmania crest has a figurative trademark owned by Innova Champion Europe. Don't think I understand things well enough to know the implications, or whether I'm overlooking something.

wims 06-21-2021 08:27 PM

Innova Champion Europe is Jussi's company AFAIK


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