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Flick Maniac 06-20-2021 03:05 AM

Not having Innova make discs for DM + the hints that Originals are not going away makes me think some of the theories I've seen out there might have something to them.

Either: DM acquired 5 most popular molds and will run them at Lat64 or, Innova will make the Originals, i.e. DM sold them the names too.

Sounds wild but what else can it be really. Oh well 32 hours will tell. Its going to be big whatever it is. Fun times!

(And now its me with the wild speculation lol)

soothsayer 06-20-2021 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flick Maniac (Post 3729852)
Not having Innova make discs for DM + the hints that Originals are not going away makes me think some of the theories I've seen out there might have something to them.

Either: DM acquired 5 most popular molds and will run them at Lat64 or, Innova will make the Originals, i.e. DM sold them the names too.

Sounds wild but what else can it be really. Oh well 32 hours will tell. Its going to be big whatever it is. Fun times!

(And now its me with the wild speculation lol)

welcome to the speculation party!! Yeah, Jussi wearing the Originials hoodie at the end? "Discmania Day 1 Live" tease? Is it possible Discmania going to start actually producing their own discs, starting with the 5 originals they spoke about? Honestly, that would be the absolute best case scenario for them.

Jolt 06-20-2021 11:27 AM

Looked like Ricky threw a PD2 in his practice round . . wonder if he will still throw that after the 21th

DiscJunkie 06-20-2021 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolt (Post 3729908)
Looked like Ricky threw a PD2 in his practice round . . wonder if he will still throw that after the 21th

He’s been throwing it a lot in recent coverage, especially at The Fort, when he needed the extra stability for a spike hyzer.
I’ve been thinking about the same question…

DiscJunkie 06-20-2021 02:06 PM

I’ll still be surprised if Jussi COMPLETELY cuts ties with Innova to the point of losing his most popular molds.
It’ll be interesting to see how it pans out.

Also, I have to keep in mind that Jussi’s background is in marketing, not manufacturing.
He may be willing to take the hit, thinking he can “market” his way through it.
After all, he’s done really well with marketing so far, turning a niche company without a single molding machine into a disc powerhouse that can’t get enough discs to meet demand.

seedlings 06-20-2021 02:52 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscJunkie (Post 3729931)
I’ll still be surprised if Jussi COMPLETELY cuts ties with Innova to the point of losing his most popular molds.
It’ll be interesting to see how it pans out.

Also, I have to keep in mind that Jussi’s background is in marketing, not manufacturing.
He may be willing to take the hit, thinking he can “market” his way through it.
After all, he’s done really well with marketing so far, turning a niche company without a single molding machine into a disc powerhouse that can’t get enough discs to meet demand.

I hope you are right. But we might need these.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...1&d=1624215083

BillFleming 06-20-2021 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscJunkie (Post 3729773)
DM has demonstrated that they will produce what their big names (Simon and Eagle and maybe a few others) want.
Some questions that may be answered soon…
1. Will DM pros still be able to throw Originals? (Probably yes)

I'm not too sure about this one. They can throw them as long as they are still available...but pros go through discs pretty regularly. If the discs aren't being made anymore...how many are still available? How many do the pros have left in their possession? Are the pros really willing to spend big bucks buying the Originals online, knowing that sellers are going to ask huge amounts since they aren't being made anymore? Or is Jussi going to buy all the available Originals online so he can give them to his pros and make them happy?

And then.....what happens when the Originals are truly gone?

I think the DM pros will have to switch to the new lines. It might be possible that the contracts give them an out if they can't get the discs they throw....but I doubt that.

What do I think will happen? I think the pros will continue using their supply of Originals and practice with the new lines. Then eventually, they will be forced to move to the new lines (due to lack of Originals) and their rankings/ratings will drop. They won't meet bonuses and eventually move on from DM.

It will be a shame.....but the new lines are different from the Originals. There's another thread on this issue in the General part of the forum and either there or here, someone says they run a store and cannot sell the new DM plastic at all.

BogeyNoMore 06-20-2021 04:08 PM

My favorite Uli line seems to fit this (and so many other situations) perfectly....
Quote:

Originally Posted by Uli
Let's see how it plays out.


Rastnav 06-20-2021 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillFleming (Post 3729950)
What do I think will happen? I think the pros will continue using their supply of Originals and practice with the new lines. Then eventually, they will be forced to move to the new lines (due to lack of Originals) and their rankings/ratings will drop. They won't meet bonuses and eventually move on from DM.

If pros can’t successfully compete with whatever discs are in Discmania's product line, then Discmania will have bigger problems than simply the loss of some relationship with Innova. It will mean they will lack of a viable lineup of discs. Conversely, if certain pros can’t adapt to a new, viable, product line, those pros have bigger issues that won’t be solved by going to a different sponsor.

So, assuming Discmania is capable of arriving at a viable product line, sponsored player performance issues should be short lived. Yes, the loss of certain favorite discs would mean that there would be less friction for a pro to leave DM, but that’s all it would mean.

Thinking about it, I'd guess that DM will continue selling discs that bear the OL names, however they manage to produce them. Given that various runs of discs, especially Innova discs, have such potentially dramatically different characteristics, it would be somewhat of a surprise if they couldn’t work with their pros to create molds and runs that gave those pros the performance they wanted out of a “PD2”, etc. It’s not as if pro ITBs don’t have multiples of the same disc that fly differently from each other out of the mold, and are prized for their slightly different flight characteristics.

wims 06-20-2021 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillFleming (Post 3729950)
I'm not too sure about this one. They can throw them as long as they are still available...but pros go through discs pretty regularly. If the discs aren't being made anymore...how many are still available? How many do the pros have left in their possession? Are the pros really willing to spend big bucks buying the Originals online, knowing that sellers are going to ask huge amounts since they aren't being made anymore? Or is Jussi going to buy all the available Originals online so he can give them to his pros and make them happy?

And then.....what happens when the Originals are truly gone?

I think the DM pros will have to switch to the new lines. It might be possible that the contracts give them an out if they can't get the discs they throw....but I doubt that.

What do I think will happen? I think the pros will continue using their supply of Originals and practice with the new lines. Then eventually, they will be forced to move to the new lines (due to lack of Originals) and their rankings/ratings will drop. They won't meet bonuses and eventually move on from DM.

It will be a shame.....but the new lines are different from the Originals. There's another thread on this issue in the General part of the forum and either there or here, someone says they run a store and cannot sell the new DM plastic at all.

I bet Avery has at least 500 of each of the popular Originals discs laying around. That dude has a lot of plastic

Jimb 06-20-2021 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore (Post 3729952)
My favorite Uli line seems to fit this (and so many other situations) perfectly....

Make sure you speak the line as if you're reading it from a cue card. :D

I like Uli, but he seems so stiff on the hole previews. It's like he's reading his lines for the first time, every time. :)

DiscJunkie 06-20-2021 05:37 PM

First, DG Pros typically have fairly large stashes of plastic. They are their “tools of the trade”, and they get them free, by the boxes, especially elite Pros. Even if they don’t happen to have a backup of a particular disc, the Pros trade and sell and gift each other discs constantly.
Second, DG Pros could throw garbage can lids and beat most us. We’ve seen pro after pro switch sponsors and not miss a beat. I would bet money that Eagle could drop his Originals and still compete and win week after week.
Still, Jussi is a smart dude (IMHO), and he’ll figure this out and come up smelling like roses.

seedlings 06-20-2021 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscJunkie (Post 3729973)
First, DG Pros typically have fairly large stashes of plastic. They are their “tools of the trade”, and they get them free, by the boxes, especially elite Pros. Even if they don’t happen to have a backup of a particular disc, the Pros trade and sell and gift each other discs constantly.
Second, DG Pros could throw garbage can lids and beat most us. We’ve seen pro after pro switch sponsors and not miss a beat. I would bet money that Eagle could drop his Originals and still compete and win week after week.
Still, Jussi is a smart dude (IMHO), and he’ll figure this out and come up smelling like roses.

But Simon and Eagle won’t beat Ricky or Paul with garbage lids. A huge part of ‘feel’ is loving what you throw: being excited to pick up a mold each time is crucial.

DanJon 06-20-2021 06:17 PM

Eagle has been throwing the Splice and Mutant, which are similar to his FD3 and MD5's.

So far, from what I've seen on coverage, he's not throwing those molds as well as the Originals versions.

soothsayer 06-20-2021 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanJon (Post 3729979)
Eagle has been throwing the Splice and Mutant, which are similar to his FD3 and MD5's.

So far, from what I've seen on coverage, he's not throwing those molds as well as the Originals versions.

Bruh, hes won 3 Pro Tour events this season...

DanJon 06-20-2021 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soothsayer (Post 3730026)
Bruh, hes won 3 Pro Tour events this season...


Bruh, reading comprehension.

Not throwing those molds as well as the Originals versions.

I was referencing the comment right before mine about liking a certain "feel" of a disc.

mas30066 06-20-2021 11:20 PM

Been thinking on this today and if our friends cook up a Vapur Lux FD after the dust settles, all (or at least most) will be forgiven.

soothsayer 06-21-2021 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanJon (Post 3730029)
Bruh, reading comprehension.

Not throwing those molds as well as the Originals versions.

I was referencing the comment right before mine about liking a certain "feel" of a disc.

I would have to disagree. He is throwing the Mutant extremely well, getting his forehand upshots super close in pretty windy conditions. Same goes for the splice. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of the originals but I don't think its correct to say he isn't throwing the new discs well.

mas30066 06-21-2021 09:48 AM

Vapor Lux. Stupid fingers.

XDrocker 06-21-2021 10:58 AM

get ready!
it's about to start!

XC_Eddy 06-21-2021 11:16 AM

They got their own manufacturing now! The demand is definitely there. I imagine the secondary market on the Innova produced stuff will be a little crazy, but for anyone who actually throws discmania having access to more supply of the new stuff should be great. The pros are throwing them just fine in the video, unsurprisingly.

XDrocker 06-21-2021 11:18 AM

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

XDrocker 06-21-2021 11:19 AM

XD > P2?

DiscJunkie 06-21-2021 11:20 AM

Color me excited.
It contradicts and exceeds my expectations.
Looking forward to the new Originals.
Frankly, the variations in the Innova production was so unpredictable, I don’t think I’ll be disappointed in DM’s copies.
Good for them…

soothsayer 06-21-2021 11:20 AM

Discmania Manufacturing.... this will be interesting. I wonder how close the molds actually are and if the pros will actually use the "New Originals" or what...

VictorB 06-21-2021 11:20 AM

As I said in the general thread I'm glad that they were able to reinvest in themselves and secure their own future. Holding on to "old methods" and depending on outside resources (which in this industry are competitors) to manufacture your product seemed risky at best. Jussi did have the forethought to take DM in a more independent route, and I applaud him for that.

soothsayer 06-21-2021 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscJunkie (Post 3730139)
Color me excited.
It contradicts and exceeds my expectations.
Looking forward to the new Originals.
Frankly, the variations in the Innova production was so unpredictable, I don’t think I’ll be disappointed in DM’s copies.
Good for them…

Yeah this is actually awesome, I just hope the new molds are VERY close to the innova produced molds.

crd 81 06-21-2021 11:22 AM

Without the actual original mold pieces, how can Discmania make the "originals"?

klodkrawler05 06-21-2021 11:23 AM

P2, MD3, DD3, PD, FD sounds like a decent core bag for most of the team DM players, I'm guessing they're gonna still have some of the old stuff filling other slots, but pretty awesome news from DM, hopefully their discs go from "impossible" to get to "only as hard as any other discs" to get.

soothsayer 06-21-2021 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crd 81 (Post 3730146)
Without the actual original mold pieces, how can Discmania make the "originals"?

They own the names, and there arent patents on the individual molds so I'm sure they just reverse engineered them.

crd 81 06-21-2021 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soothsayer (Post 3730149)
They own the names, and there arent patents on the individual molds so I'm sure they just reverse engineered them.

That's my thinking.

Looks like the best thing Discmania did was actually own the names. Imagine having to reverse engineer something that people have grown accustom to only to have to rename it.

VictorB 06-21-2021 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soothsayer (Post 3730149)
They own the names, and there arent patents on the individual molds so I'm sure they just reverse engineered them.

This begs the question of whether re-approval is needed. I can't imagine they'd be doing this without consulting the pdga prior, to see if they'd need to resubmit.

My initial thoughts would be that when they made the mold prototypes they did contact them about re-approval, since the names would be the same. The pdga says "no re-approval needed" and DM has their release dates

robdeforge 06-21-2021 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soothsayer (Post 3730149)
They own the names, and there arent patents on the individual molds so I'm sure they just reverse engineered them.

I wonder if that would require them to get approval for the "new" molds

edit: whoops VictorB beat me to it

DiscJunkie 06-21-2021 11:39 AM

It’ll be interesting to see how many of the P2 Prototypes they have available tomorrow at the DM store.

Also interested to see what the demand is.

Also interested to see how this news affects the market for Innova Originals.

Keller 06-21-2021 11:42 AM

Be interested to see what the prices will be.

Horsman 06-21-2021 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscJunkie (Post 3730160)
It’ll be interesting to see how many of the P2 Prototypes they have available tomorrow at the DM store.

Also interested to see what the demand is.

Also interested to see how this news affects the market for Innova Originals.

Discmania is gunna piss off so many people tomorrow when they dont have enough supply to meet the demand

Jolt 06-21-2021 11:47 AM

Wonder what Innova thinks of this? . . and Lat64, if Discmania can make the Original by them self, why not make ALL the disc them self?

Or is it Lat 64 that have helped Discmania to set up this new factory?

soothsayer 06-21-2021 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horsman (Post 3730164)
Discmania is gunna piss off so many people tomorrow when they dont have enough supply to meet the demand

LOL right? I really hope it goes the way of the Royal Rage II release where there are plenty of discs and everybody can get a pair. I think they did the right thing with that last release. I was able to easily get a pair of Logics and the color combo of RR2 that I wanted. Ill be happy if the "New" Originals are close to their innova made counterparts, and there are TONS of them available especially the Signature Series discs. It will also be huge for their tour players because they wont be limited on how many they can sell. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out ;)

B The V 06-21-2021 11:48 AM

They had a ton of product for their last drop. I am hoping that the drop shortages are a thing of the past.

soothsayer 06-21-2021 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolt (Post 3730166)
Wonder what Innova thinks of this? . . and Lat64, if Discmania can make the Original by them self, why not make ALL the disc them self?

Or is it Lat 64 that have helped Discmania to set up this new factory?

In the video, the machines are the exact same ones that Lat 64 uses, so I would guess they at least helped out a little but who knows. I wonder if DM will become part of the Trilogy brand (bye bye Westside?).


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