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robdeforge 02-17-2022 11:50 AM

$30 is too much for a disc to me, but I still went ahead and did it in no small part because my original color glow md3 cost $30 after shipping YEARS ago. even $25 is pushing it - I was really disappointed to see the '21 sexton firebirds retail for that...

I also got a couple color glow chariots to try out but those were $25 from infinite, so trying out MD3s / MD3 replacements for me is just a more expensive thing that I've decied to put up with. probably won't be buying anymore for a long time, though

ray1970 02-17-2022 12:25 PM

Itís really weird but $25 for a tour series disc seems reasonable to me but once you hit $30 it almost becomes a deal breaker.

My OCD is like an onion I guess. Many layers.

DiscT 02-17-2022 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ray1970 (Post 3791011)
Itís really weird but $25 for a tour series disc seems reasonable to me but once you hit $30 it almost becomes a deal breaker.

My OCD is like an onion I guess. Many layers.

All valid. Thereís no debating that the price is steep Will that ever change for DM? Iím really curious if they can regain their footing. Their plastic is no doubt some of the most expensive.

I also didnít realize so many throwers here considered the new Md3 to be distinctly different than the new original?

Agarner14 02-17-2022 12:44 PM

DM has, in a way, already addressed the $30 price point. They are producing discs overseas and using air transport to get discs to the US quickly. This is especially the case for special releases like the IS3. This is very expensive and likely explains the price increase across all of the DM originals line. I imagine this is also why we are all still waiting for the promised Q4 FD and PD releases. It just takes time to move the inventory from overseas. Is it a smart business move? I think time will tell.

I have to imagine that DM is piling up inventory for a series of back to back releases moving into the Spring/Early Summer. I hope that the spring looks something like the fall of 2021 with lots of releases and plenty of inventory. I guess we'll know more once DM puts out the long awaited and promised production update.

@CD- 02-17-2022 12:45 PM

Quantity manufactured - seems like they got a years worth available in a single drop (15k+ worldwide?). Used to only see 2-3 releases scattered throughout the year totaling 5k or 7k. Having enough available to meet demand through the early season may be DM's goal.

Price - escalated a bit more with shipping + tax costs, 1 disc for $35+ is a lot direct from the DM store or other vendors. I remember the DM Tour C-Line Glow signature series from 2018-2020 were $22-25 before shipping. Even then it was consistently a few dollars more than other manufacturers Tour fundraiser discs. Partially this was due to another company manufacturing their discs but I'm guessing the guaranteed money from sponsorship contracts, new manufacturing operation, inflation, and container shipping to U.S. are pushing the prices up.

Stamp - design isn't too bad, no special foils though so you won't have collectors trying to assemble a full set.

DiscT 02-17-2022 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by @CD- (Post 3791022)
Quantity manufactured - seems like they got a years worth available in a single drop (15k+ worldwide?). Used to only see 2-3 releases scattered throughout the year totaling 5k or 7k. Having enough available to meet demand through the early season may be DM's goal.

Price - escalated a bit more with shipping + tax costs, 1 disc for $35+ is a lot direct from the DM store or other vendors. I remember the DM Tour C-Line Glow signature series from 2018-2020 were $22-25 before shipping. Even then it was consistently a few dollars more than other manufacturers Tour fundraiser discs. Partially this was due to another company manufacturing their discs but I'm guessing the guaranteed money from sponsorship contracts, new manufacturing operation, inflation, and container shipping to U.S. are pushing the prices up.

Stamp - design isn't too bad, no special foils though so you won't have collectors trying to assemble a full set.

I didnít see that many when I got on, so that makes sense. I also didnít convert to DM until last year, so I didnít have previous drops as a reference. Your theory makes a lot of sense.

ray1970 02-17-2022 01:07 PM

Official Ask Discmania Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Agarner14 (Post 3791020)
DM has, in a way, already addressed the $30 price point. They are producing discs overseas and using air transport to get discs to the US quickly. This is especially the case for special releases like the IS3. This is very expensive and likely explains the price increase across all of the DM originals line. I imagine this is also why we are all still waiting for the promised Q4 FD and PD releases. It just takes time to move the inventory from overseas. Is it a smart business move? I think time will tell.

I get the whole overseas logistics thing. I think the higher prices honestly have more to do with recovering the cost of new equipment or facilities. I can get base plastic trilogy stuff for $9 and tour series Wysocki Felons and Harps are only $25. These things all make pretty much the same trip to get here.

Edit- sorry, didnít realize they were flying the discs into the states. I would assume Trilogy just puts them on a ship or whatever.

Agarner14 02-17-2022 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ray1970 (Post 3791026)
I get the whole overseas logistics thing. I think the higher prices honestly have more to do with recovering the cost of new equipment or facilities. I can get base plastic trilogy stuff for $9 and tour series Wysocki Felons and Harps are only $25. These things all make pretty much the same trip to get here.

Edit- sorry, didnít realize they were flying the discs into the states. I would assume Trilogy just puts them on a ship or whatever.

Yeah, it is the air transport that really bumps the price up. DM support posted on this thread about it a few weeks ago. I think Trilogy has a well established supply and production chain which DM lacks. So in order to get discs to the US for special releases they end up flying them over which increases the price. I assume they don't do this for the base line releases which is why those release dates keep getting pushed back.

Just my theory.

Flick Maniac 02-17-2022 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ray1970 (Post 3791011)
Itís really weird but $25 for a tour series disc seems reasonable to me but once you hit $30 it almost becomes a deal breaker.

My OCD is like an onion I guess. Many layers.

Same boat (onion?) here. 29.90Ä was my limit when I was still buying.

discerdoo 02-17-2022 02:34 PM

I won't be paying $30 for a stock FD or PD.

I vaguely remember saying I wouldn't pay $15 for a mid grade plastic putter too. 😟

Discmania_Support 02-18-2022 07:50 AM

Discmania Support Reply
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscT (Post 3790874)
Any theories on why there are still several IS3s still available? First glow plastic, infamous DM signature disc, Eagle. I thought theyíd push.

Also, anyone have any thoughts/theories why DM has such limited color variety when it comes to their plastic? Everything has been pink and blue for quite some time. Special edition discs will yield different colors, but why?

Color glow is kind of tricky. There's a reason you don't see purple, yellow, orange or even more radical colors like grey or black because the glow portion of it is no longer effective. Some have been made in the past but pink and blue have proven to be the brightest glow versions other than simply white, of course.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agarner14 (Post 3791044)
Yeah, it is the air transport that really bumps the price up. DM support posted on this thread about it a few weeks ago. I think Trilogy has a well established supply and production chain which DM lacks. So in order to get discs to the US for special releases they end up flying them over which increases the price. I assume they don't do this for the base line releases which is why those release dates keep getting pushed back.

Just my theory.

No one has a well established supply chain right now. :) Sea freight has been about as large of a gamble as any business can take. Our last container received in 2021 was shipped around February-March and arrived in December, normally taking about 8 weeks max. Most recent containers did seem to arrive in a more reliable time frame so it's possible that we could see some improvement in that regard with US ports.

Flick Maniac 02-18-2022 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discmania_Support (Post 3791153)
Color glow is kind of tricky. There's a reason you don't see purple, yellow, orange or even more radical colors like grey or black because the glow portion of it is no longer effective. Some have been made in the past but pink and blue have proven to be the brightest glow versions other than simply white, of course.



No one has a well established supply chain right now. :) Sea freight has been about as large of a gamble as any business can take. Our last container received in 2021 was shipped around February-March and arrived in December, normally taking about 8 weeks max. Most recent containers did seem to arrive in a more reliable time frame so it's possible that we could see some improvement in that regard with US ports.

Yeah IIRC even in the era of ol' Rancho Cucamonga, you only had blue/turquoise, pink and sometimes orange.

twistedraven 02-18-2022 11:18 AM

I was hoping for seafoam colored Color Glow MD3s. All I've seen so far is pretty much blue. Also to be frank I think quite a lot of people who buy and throw Color Glow do it because of the plastic's unique feel and flight, not because of its glow performance.

seedlings 02-18-2022 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistedraven (Post 3791210)
I was hoping for seafoam colored Color Glow MD3s. All I've seen so far is pretty much blue. Also to be frank I think quite a lot of people who buy and throw Color Glow do it because of the plastic's unique feel and flight, not because of its glow performance.

A tiny amount of green Rit Dyemore in lotion, slathered on a blue disc will get your seafoam color.

ray1970 02-18-2022 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistedraven (Post 3791210)
I was hoping for seafoam colored Color Glow MD3s. All I've seen so far is pretty much blue. Also to be frank I think quite a lot of people who buy and throw Color Glow do it because of the plastic's unique feel and flight, not because of its glow performance.


Pretty much this for me. I donít really even play in the dark but I do like that a lot of the glow plastics are usually a little softer and grippier so if Iím buying one itís more just that I like the feel of the plastic.

Flick Maniac 02-18-2022 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ray1970 (Post 3791222)
Pretty much this for me. I donít really even play in the dark but I do like that a lot of the glow plastics are usually a little softer and grippier so if Iím buying one itís more just that I like the feel of the plastic.

True. Thougj I'd love to play a real glow round (as we have quite the number of dark hours in Finland outside of midnight sun summers) but you have to find a really nice secluded course that has zero light pollution. Even a single industrial light uncovered messes with your vision for ways away. And you have to get other people to commit to glow only (not LED) and not ruining night vision with flashlights. Let your eyes get nice and adjusted.

adb83 02-20-2022 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agarner14 (Post 3791020)
DM has, in a way, already addressed the $30 price point. They are producing discs overseas and using air transport to get discs to the US quickly. This is especially the case for special releases like the IS3. This is very expensive and likely explains the price increase across all of the DM originals line.

So when they start shipping on boats again are the prices going to go down?

Just so everyone knows, I'm trolling. I stopped throwing DM when I couldn't get CD2s anymore. But, I really think this should be a question for people throwing DM.

klodkrawler05 02-21-2022 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adb83 (Post 3791683)
So when they start shipping on boats again are the prices going to go down?

Just so everyone knows, I'm trolling. I stopped throwing DM when I couldn't get CD2s anymore. But, I really think this should be a question for people throwing DM.

Continuing the troll and topic drift, but why is this specifically a question for DM throwers? Sexton Firebirds were $29.99 last year from Innova's website, no overseas shipping required.

Heck, Paul Mcbeth base plastic Luna's are $22 on Discrafts website right now. (or $24.99 if you'd rather have them with a starwars theme stamp instead of a stock stamp)

I think this really is more a question for Disc Golf in general of what the market will bear for tour series discs.
Personally, I bought a stack of the Perkins Zen because the Essence is a go-to disc in my bag. I bought a stack of the Klein Origin despite never throwing them before because he's a local and I wanted to support his tour efforts. I haven't bought any IS3's partially because $30 is more than I want to spend for a single disc and partially because I barely threw my IS2 enough last year to break it in and I've still got a backup on the shelf in case I lose the bagged one.

Price of individual discs aside, I think it's awesome that you can hop on DM's website right now and order 4 different tour series discs and 16 different molds (if my count is correct) in various plastics. Certainly an improvement from 2 years ago even if it's not back to pre-covid availability and options.

robdeforge 02-21-2022 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klodkrawler05 (Post 3791731)
Continuing the troll and topic drift, but why is this specifically a question for DM throwers? Sexton Firebirds were $29.99 last year from Innova's website, no overseas shipping required.

FYI they were $24.99 from Innova's website

Agarner14 02-21-2022 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adb83 (Post 3791683)
So when they start shipping on boats again are the prices going to go down?

Just so everyone knows, I'm trolling. I stopped throwing DM when I couldn't get CD2s anymore. But, I really think this should be a question for people throwing DM.

I think it is a valid question, even if you are just trolling. I don't think DM prices are generally unreasonable. Most of the premium plastics are in the 18-20 $ range which is fairly consistent with the rest of the market. The $30 price point for tour series/special edition originals is pushing it though. If I had to guess, I think DM will probably not decrease the price as long as things are selling. I also do wonder what % the player is getting because I certainly don't mind paying a little extra to support players.

BillFleming 02-21-2022 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adb83 (Post 3791683)
So when they start shipping on boats again are the prices going to go down?

Just so everyone knows, I'm trolling. I stopped throwing DM when I couldn't get CD2s anymore. But, I really think this should be a question for people throwing DM.

Supply and Demand. As long as people are willing to pay the price, why change it? And it isn't just DM....and it isn't just disc golf.

Bad part about 'higher' prices is that it becomes harder to try new discs.

Friend: You should really try Brand X Mold Y. It would fit perfectly into your ability and game.
Me Before: I'll get one and give it a try. If it doesn't work, it can sit on my shelf and I'll retry it another time.
Me Now: I'll have to think about it....if it doesn't work for me...that means I had to put off getting a disc to replace one I have or another one that would work for me.

I like trying different discs and have several that just didn't work out for me. I would have never tried a Discmania Essence (which I bag) today because of prices and I find myself going back to Innova because I know their discs work for me and I'll use them. Which is a shame, because I've found a bunch of non-Innova/Discraft that work for me because I was able to afford them even if they were going to sit on my shelves.

DiscJunkie 02-21-2022 03:55 PM

I’m surprised that nobody is looking at DM’s latest releases and price points from the economics of player sponsorship.
Eagle is one of the top/elite disc golfers around and DM needs to keep him, I think, to remain relevant in today’s market.
That means DM needs to get $$ in Eagle’s pocket…
Eagle can reasonably expect to be compensated at Paul and Ricky’s level, because he wins, has a following and he moves plastic!
So the Rainmakers and IS3s are very much benefiting Eagle, as they should. DM has spent a lot of money getting the factory up and running, so these releases are intended to keep Eagle compensated while they get their supply chain issues ironed out.
It all makes perfect sense.
Jussi is no dummy…

BillFleming 02-21-2022 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscJunkie (Post 3791882)
Iím surprised that nobody is looking at DMís latest releases and price points from the economics of player sponsorship.
Eagle is one of the top/elite disc golfers around and DM needs to keep him, I think, to remain relevant in todayís market.
That means DM needs to get $$ in Eagleís pocketÖ
Eagle can reasonably expect to be compensated at Paul and Rickyís level, because he wins, has a following and he moves plastic!
So the Rainmakers and IS3s are very much benefiting Eagle, as they should. DM has spent a lot of money getting the factory up and running, so these releases are intended to keep Eagle compensated while they get their supply chain issues ironed out.
It all makes perfect sense.
Jussi is no dummyÖ

All that is true....but, do you think DM would keep the prices where they are if people weren't buying them because of the cost? It all comes back to supply and demand. People are willing to spend the money to replace/get backups for their DM discs, and willing to spend the money to get the latest plastic/disc. If the discs were prices too high for people to be buying, then DM would have to relook at the cost so that they could sell enough to pay for the factory and the players being sponsored. They seem to have hit a good price point where enough people are buying. And those like me? Well, I'm sure DM would love to have me as a purchaser....but they aren't "missing" me since I wouldn't add enough to the bottom line for them to entice me to buy.

Flick Maniac 02-22-2022 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillFleming (Post 3791860)
Supply and Demand. As long as people are willing to pay the price, why change it? And it isn't just DM....and it isn't just disc golf.

Bad part about 'higher' prices is that it becomes harder to try new discs.

Friend: You should really try Brand X Mold Y. It would fit perfectly into your ability and game.
Me Before: I'll get one and give it a try. If it doesn't work, it can sit on my shelf and I'll retry it another time.
Me Now: I'll have to think about it....if it doesn't work for me...that means I had to put off getting a disc to replace one I have or another one that would work for me.

I like trying different discs and have several that just didn't work out for me. I would have never tried a Discmania Essence (which I bag) today because of prices and I find myself going back to Innova because I know their discs work for me and I'll use them. Which is a shame, because I've found a bunch of non-Innova/Discraft that work for me because I was able to afford them even if they were going to sit on my shelves.

I feel like in the current market its more like

"Hmm I gotta fork over a little more than usual for it, but if I dont click with it, I'm likely to get AT LEAST the same price for it in the 2nd hand market when selling it"

Ive done that for stock discs like basic S-DD3s. 8/10 and still getting more than the original price.

ian.w 02-22-2022 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flick Maniac (Post 3792068)

Ive done that for stock discs like basic S-DD3s. 8/10 and still getting more than the original price.

Thereís absolutely no reason why used discs, that just released, should be worth more than retail.

Dubbsy 02-22-2022 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian.w (Post 3792185)
Thereís absolutely no reason why used discs, that just released, should be worth more than retail.

I don't understand the barely used ones going higher than retail either, but the full seasoned beat discs make sense to some level in case of replacement.

BillFleming 02-22-2022 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian.w (Post 3792185)
Thereís absolutely no reason why used discs, that just released, should be worth more than retail.

Sure there is. Lately runs of discs are very limited. Oh! I really like this new disc that just came out....I need to get some backups. Wait, I can't get more? They are sold out? Let me check the used options online.

People realize that if they have a disc that ended up not working for them, and it isn't available due to it being a limited run....that disc may be worth a lot to a player who ended up really liking it and needs backups.

Again....supply and demand.

BogeyNoMore 02-22-2022 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscJunkie (Post 3791882)
I’m surprised that nobody is looking at DM’s latest releases and price points from the economics of player sponsorship.
Eagle is one of the top/elite disc golfers around and DM needs to keep him, I think, to remain relevant in today’s market.
That means DM needs to get $$ in Eagle’s pocket…
Eagle can reasonably expect to be compensated at Paul and Ricky’s level, because he wins, has a following and he moves plastic!
So the Rainmakers and IS3s are very much benefiting Eagle, as they should. DM has spent a lot of money getting the factory up and running, so these releases are intended to keep Eagle compensated while they get their supply chain issues ironed out.
It all makes perfect sense.
Jussi is no dummy…

Allow me to retort.
Nothing off Eagle (and/or Simon).
They're both among the very best in the world.
Both have a well established online presence and a bunch of subscribers. They've been the face(s) of the company for quite a few years, and represent Discmania they way you'd want if it were your company. Both are capable of beating any field for any given event.

But does either of them really move as much plastic as Paul or Ricky??

Multiple World's titles gives players reach and influence that's hard to match otherwise. Paul's become his own marketing machine, and Ricky's certainly learning. I'm not saying Simon and Eagle should earn more than most others, but I just don't see them at being worth seven figures.

At least not yet.

Put another way: don't tell me DM wouldn't be able to move even moar plastic if Eagle won a World's.



....or two.

BogeyNoMore 02-22-2022 07:58 PM

Correction:
Quote:

Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore (Post 3792271)
I'm not saying Simon and Eagle shouldn't earn more than most others, but I just don't see them being worth seven figures.

At least not yet.


jakebake91 02-22-2022 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore (Post 3792271)
Allow me to retort.
Nothing off Eagle (and/or Simon).
They're both among the very best in the world.
Both have a well established online presence and a bunch of subscribers. They've been the face(s) of the company for quite a few years, and represent Discmania they way you'd want if it were your company. Both are capable of beating any field for any given event.

But does either of them really move as much plastic as Paul or Ricky??

Multiple World's titles gives players reach and influence that's hard to match otherwise. Paul's become his own marketing machine, and Ricky's certainly learning. I'm not saying Simon and Eagle should earn more than most others, but I just don't see them at being worth seven figures.

At least not yet.

Put another way: don't tell me DM wouldn't be able to move even moar plastic if Eagle won a World's.



....or two.

I'd be willing to bet Eagle and/or Simon move as much or more plastic than Rick. They aren't touching Paul, but I be they are there with Rick.

I'm just guessing based on what I've seen in the course. Ive seen very very few Ricky discs in the wild. Most of them were Pigs in the last year, and maybe a harp once. Basically every DM disc I've ever seen on the course has been an Eagle or Simon disc.

robdeforge 02-23-2022 10:51 AM

https://www.facebook.com/discmania/p...66209200955541

Quote:

March 16th �� The icon returns! ��
The long awaited king of fairway drivers - the FD - returns! Famous for its straight flight path combined with high glide and controllability, the FD is a disc that everyone needs! Are you excited to see the FD return? ��
https://www.discmania.net/pages/next
#discmania #discgolf #reinventyourgame

seedlings 02-24-2022 08:10 AM

Two weeks after the FD, looks like theyíre running some Splices.

Moonshine 02-24-2022 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seedlings (Post 3792666)
Two weeks after the FD, looks like theyíre running some Splices.

And Mutants!

burger0014 02-24-2022 08:16 PM

and when will rainmakers be available?

DiscT 03-05-2022 02:10 PM

Anyone have thoughts on the IS3? This is my first, so I donít have anything to compare it to. Iíve heard the whole flat va. domey color argument. I want to hear from the maniacs with the debut of color glow Italian plastic, comparison to the meta flake Samurais, and how it compares to the many iterations of the md3. Thoughts?

Figure we can chat about that since we still donít have a production updateÖ

fishballer06 03-07-2022 08:27 AM

There's a definite difference in dome between the two colors. Blue having dome, and pink being flatter. I haven't gotten to throw mine enough to make a true assessment, so I won't compare it just yet.

Agarner14 03-07-2022 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscT (Post 3794846)
Anyone have thoughts on the IS3? This is my first, so I donít have anything to compare it to. Iíve heard the whole flat va. domey color argument. I want to hear from the maniacs with the debut of color glow Italian plastic, comparison to the meta flake Samurais, and how it compares to the many iterations of the md3. Thoughts?

Figure we can chat about that since we still donít have a production updateÖ

I finally got to take my pink IS3 out to the field yesterday with my fairly beat-in C-line MD3. My first impression is that the IS3 flies a bit more overstable compared to a used MD3, but not by too much. The plastic was a bit grippier with slightly more flex even in 30 degree weather compared to italian blend C-line. After a few throws and adjustments I was getting very similar flight paths and distances with both discs.

And yeah, that production update is just a few months overdue....

B The V 03-08-2022 09:40 AM

@discmania_support any hints as to what's next after the fd, mutant, splice drops?

DiscT 03-08-2022 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B The V (Post 3795516)
@discmania_support any hints as to what's next after the fd, mutant, splice drops?

Coming into the season, I really need a P2 in a plastic for throwing. Iím fine with D-Line getting chewed up for putting, but we need a C or S line for throwing. Sky God?

Also, @discmania_support, is P-line coming back, or is it now only flex 1-3?

seedlings 03-08-2022 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscT (Post 3795525)
Coming into the season, I really need a P2 in a plastic for throwing. Iím fine with D-Line getting chewed up for putting, but we need a C or S line for throwing. Sky God?

Also, @discmania_support, is P-line coming back, or is it now only flex 1-3?

+1 hey Discmania, If you want to bump the Envy out of my bag, make a premium plastic P2.


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