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bikedoctor 06-14-2008 08:22 PM

The mythical Innova ROC
 
Going into my second month of this new hobby and I keep hearing about the ROC. Usually in a low respectful tone with everyone nodding their heads in agreement at this sacred flyer. Please educate me.

What is your experience with this disc and what are the different variations (ontario vs classic)? What is your favorite plastic and weigth.

I also can't help but notice Innovas love of R-O-C (CRO, ORC).

Thanks for the education.

Kev.

Three Putt 06-15-2008 12:51 PM

Rocs seem confusing, but it's not really all that bad to understand.

The first Roc came out about '87. It was a small diameter 21.2 cm diameter disc based off the XD. In '89 that disc was replaced with the first version of what we consider a Roc today-the 21.7 cm diameter San Marino Roc. This disc quickly became the most popular disc on the market. At the time the Stingray was about as long a disc as you could get, so the Roc was used by many players for almost every shot.

In '94 or '95, something happened to the Roc mold and the disc was replaced with a new version. Innova's mailing address had changed, so the tooling on the new disc said "Ontario." Thus the old disc became the "San Marino" or "Sanny" Roc and the new disc was called the "Ontario" Roc. The Ontario Roc has a higher dome and flips easier than the San Marino's. Because of this they were not very popular and they were replaced in 1997 by the current "Rancho" Roc, so named because Innova moved from Ontario to Rancho Cucamonga and the tooling once again changed. The Rancho Roc is the most overstable Roc yet, and has been hugely popular.

So, there are really only three molds: San Marino, Ontario and Rancho. If you go to the store and buy a DX Roc or a KC Pro Roc, it is a Rancho mold. From most overstable to least overstable they go Rancho-San Marino-Ontario.

When San Marino's and Ontario's were in production, there was only DX plastic. All plastic variations of the Roc such as KC Pro Rocs, Super Rocs and USDGC Roc are Ranchos. The exception are a few collectors USDGC Rocs that have been run in the Ontario and San Marino molds the last two years, but if you don't understand Rocs and you are paying collector USDGC Roc money for a disc...well, you need more help than a post on a message board can give you.

Last year the DX Ontario mold was brought back as a CFR disc. This year they have re-created the DX San Marino Roc in the CFR program and added an Ontario Roc in Star to the CFR program. So you can find some new San Marino's and Ontario's now with tournament stamps. Any Roc you find with he standard factory stamp is still a Rancho. You can still tell the difference by flipping them over and reading the tooling on the underside.

The original 21.2 cm diameter disc came back in '95 as the "Classic Roc." It has the "Roc" name, but it should be considered a completely different unrelated disc to the other Roc's. It is nothing like a Roc.

That's about it. Actually, it is not...but basically that is it.

Edit: This thread came back from the dead, and the saga of the Roc continues. In 2009 they put the recreated San Marino mold into regular production in Star plastic. In 2010 they introduced the Roc+ mold, which features a slanted inner rim. The original PR for it made the Roc+ seem like a disc they were going to sell in Champ and Star, but other than some fundraiser Star's the only plastic I've seen it in is R-Pro.

Edit of the Edit: OK, so... They now have a Star Rancho Roc in Star along with the recreated Star San Marino Roc AND they have a Roc3 mold which they are selling in Champion. So now there are 5 Rocs: Rancho, Roc3, San Marino, Roc+ and Ontario. :\ My original assertion that Rocs were not all that confusing can be freely ignored. :(

Three Putt 06-15-2008 03:39 PM

Oh, you asked about plastic & weight. DX is the best plastic for Rocs, because as they beat in they become super predictable across the whole spectrum of shots. I carry a new DX Roc for slightly overstable shots, a nicely worn in one for straight shots and a beat up one for turnovers. I use weights between 172-175g. A new KC Roc will start out more stable than a DX. I carry one of those but usually I only throw it on windy days. Since I want this disc to be more stable, my KC's are more in the 177-178g range.

nosajeel99 06-15-2008 03:46 PM

Wow. I learned a whole heck of a lot in that post. Thanks, Three Putt.

The Roc is my favorite disc because it does exactly what I want. It holds the line on which it is thrown really well for me (anhyzer, hyzer, or straight). It is my most predictable disc and if I had to play an entire round with only one disc, a Roc would be it.

garublador 06-16-2008 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Three Putt (Post 2706)
Oh, you asked about plastic & weight. DX is the best plastic for Rocs, because as they beat in they become super predictable across the whole spectrum of shots. I carry a new DX Roc for slightly overstable shots, a nicely worn in one for straight shots and a beat up one for turnovers. I use weights between 172-175g. A new KC Roc will start out more stable than a DX. I carry one of those but usually I only throw it on windy days. Since I want this disc to be more stable, my KC's are more in the 177-178g range.

My opinion is that this is very accurate. If you want to get in on the Roc thing just buy a 172-175g DX Roc and use the crap out of it.

bikedoctor 06-16-2008 09:47 PM

Thank you....

I bow down to your knowledge. :)

joshdarkstar 06-17-2008 02:14 PM

i can't say anything that hasn't already been said... wow. thanks Three-Putt. i agree with the DX and mid 170's weight range. once your Roc gets worn in nicely there is no disc out there that you can control as well as them. if you can become very skilled with a Roc, you won't need any other disc for shorter courses.

Doktor John 06-17-2008 03:51 PM

I'm now motivated to start using the Roc I have and whip it into shape....thanks guys....

bikedoctor 06-17-2008 09:13 PM

What have the other disc makers done to replicate the success of the ROC?

Or have other disc's reached the same legendary status but without the spotlight or fame of the ROC?

I just dont hear other people gooing over their other disc's like the ROC. It just seems one sided and odd.

kev

Three Putt 06-18-2008 11:18 AM

Disc golf is still very regional, so what discs are big changes from place to place. Most of the discs with a really big following are made by Innova as they have the biggest distribution by far.

Here would be my "Hall of Fame" for golf discs.

Innova Aviar: Easily the best-selling disc of all time.
Gateway Wizard: The longest putter on the market. Sales of this one disc keep Gateway afloat.
Millennium Omega Supersoft:Original "putter" plastic wasn't really all that soft, but the Omega Supersoft set the standard for the floppy, sticky putter plastic that is so popular today.
Innova Roc: See above.
Discraft Buzzz: Finally, a mid-range from Discraft that flies like a Roc. It will hold any line you put on it.
Innova Stingray: Anybody else remember when the Stingray was the Max-D disc on the market? It has evolved from distance driver to turnover mid over the years, but it has remained a useful disc in many players bags over the years.
Innova Viper: People forget that this was the best-selling driver of the 90's. It was the pinnacle of "large diameter" drivers. Big, slow and overtable, it has been replaced by faster, small diameter discs.
Discraft Cyclone: Revolutionary when it was released, it is a fast (well, it was fast at the time) driver that you can shape a variety of lines with. Pros and recreational players could all use this disc for distance drives. Discraft is often accused of "copying" Innova discs, but Innova copied the Cyclone when it released the Gazelle a year later. The Cyclone is still a great fairway driver today.
Millennium Polaris LS: This disc pushed all the technical specs at the time of it's release, and it was released in the upgraded "Millennium" plastic. It proved that disc golfers would pay more for better plastic and started the march toward premium plastics.
Gateway Sabre: Gateway's first disc was a winner. You have to throw it hard to get good results, but it is a super-predictable flyer.
Innova TeeBird: If any other disc has a Roc-like following, it is the TeeBird. It flies long and straight with a predictable fade...It is often called a "longer Roc." Despite all the hype over high-speed drivers, top throwers still use the TeeBird in distance competitions.
Innova Valkyrie: The disc that started the rim wars. After the Valk, every year somebody had a new disc with a bigger rim that supposedly flies faster, farther, better, makes you coffee, etc. Tech standards have put a cap on that, so we will see what the next innovation in discs design will be.
Innova Firebird or Discraft Predator: Everybody loves an overstable pig. These two are the class of that field.

There are a lot of newer discs out there...Wraith, Surge, Destroyer, yada, yada, yada. I'll let the test of time work it out before I put them on this list. One new disc that will be on the list is the
Quest Turbo-Putt: For years, Innova's patent on golf discs allowed them to de facto control the evolution of the golf disc. Discs like the 10M Brick and Turbo Putt signaled a new era in golf disc design and forced the PDGA to tighten the definition of what is a golf disc. Because of that it will impact what we are throwing long after it disappears from the scene.


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