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sidewinder22 10-14-2020 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3643767)
Just curious, how far do you throw? Can you dial up 500+ feet on demand whenever you need it?

"I throw far" - Markus Kallstrom
https://i.imgur.com/XmW0VKR.jpg

cmcleod 10-14-2020 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3643767)
Just curious, how far do you throw? Can you dial up 500+ feet on demand whenever you need it?

The answer is in his YouTube channel. If you find it maybe he’ll give you a free form critique.

RoDeO 10-14-2020 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidewinder22 (Post 3644108)
"I throw far" - Markus Kallstrom
https://i.imgur.com/XmW0VKR.jpg

So I take that as a yes?

seedlings 10-14-2020 09:25 PM

Sigh


seedlings 10-14-2020 09:33 PM


RoDeO 10-14-2020 09:38 PM

I don't see where the disc is going 500+ feet

seedlings 10-14-2020 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3644160)
I don't see where the disc is going 500+ feet

Point is you can look this up yourself. Nothing hidden. There are players with great form who can significantly out throw players with great form, who can waaaay out throw players with bad form.

Jukeshoe 10-14-2020 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3644160)
I don't see where the disc is going 500+ feet

Clearly you've uncovered a fraud. :|

ru4por 10-14-2020 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3643767)
Just curious, how far do you throw? Can you dial up 500+ feet on demand whenever you need it?

Are you like 9 years old?

RoDeO 10-15-2020 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seedlings (Post 3644169)
Point is you can look this up yourself. Nothing hidden. There are players with great form who can significantly out throw players with great form, who can waaaay out throw players with bad form.

I am merely assuming that if Sidewinder believes Paul Oman has less than perfect form then Sidewinder must clearly throw farther.

RoDeO 10-15-2020 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ru4por (Post 3644195)
Are you like 9 years old?

Hey, Sidewinder pretty much gave a negative critique of Paul Omans mechanics. Im just wondering if his own throw is superior.

wolfhaley 10-15-2020 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jukeshoe (Post 3644173)
Clearly you've uncovered a fraud. :|

Somebody here is a fraud. That's for sure.

RandyC 10-15-2020 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3644014)
Strongarming, quite simply, is when it feels like the arm is doing all the work. If one doesn't feel like they are using their hips and torso to throw the disc, it's highly probable they are strongarming it. You can definitely tell when you aren't strongarming because you can feel the power in your hips and torso propelling the disc.

Once again there are too many threads here to discuss pretty much the same thing but you could leave out the strong part in that term and just say arming. You can either do it with muscle tension or with a limp arm. Infact your throw is a good example of limp arming the disc.

Man running backwards with an internally rotated front shoulder turns forward and swings a limp arm out to external rotation, there is no shoulder turn which means there is no hips. That front shoulder gives the illusion and maybe the feel as if your shoulder were turning but thats not true. So you are just going from neutral to open.
https://youtu.be/RIY8hZh9UWw

navel 10-15-2020 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyC (Post 3644211)
Once again there are too many threads here to discuss pretty much the same thing but you could leave out the strong part in that term and just say arming. You can either do it with muscle tension or with a limp arm. Infact your throw is a good example of limp arming the disc.

Man running backwards with an internally rotated front shoulder turns forward and swings a limp arm out to external rotation, there is no shoulder turn which means there is no hips. That front shoulder gives the illusion and maybe the feel as if your shoulder were turning but thats not true. So you are just going from neutral to open.
https://youtu.be/RIY8hZh9UWw

Great example video of what not to do.
Bad shoulder angle, dragging the disc along / rounding / "strong-shouldering", no brace, backwards x-step, open hips, open lead foot, the timing is way off, chicken wing follow through, flailing off-arm, bad balance... The list goes on.
Hmm.. May I suggest you try and be more explosive Rodeo? Lol. That might work for you! :D

RandyC 10-15-2020 06:26 AM

Regadless I assume RoDeo joined this forum to learn and not get bashed. I think it is good to question things but itīs another thing to straight up refuse advice from professional players and more experienced players here.

navel 10-15-2020 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyC (Post 3644228)
Regadless I assume RoDeo joined this forum to learn and not get bashed. I think it is good to question things but itīs another thing to straight up refuse advice from professional players and more experienced players here.

I totally agree. Every thread seems to be hijacked by Rodeo and his preaching right now.
It's not even worth reading through the new posts anymore.
It blows my mind how it seems to be ok for one person to keep going off-topic and stir up every thread like that. And it makes it really difficult to discuss the original questions. This is a great example. My own post is as off topic as can be, sadly.

NoseDownKing 10-15-2020 08:54 AM

Can someone list down the proper kinetic sequence of a backhand throw?

Trying to start a proper conversation

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

SaROCaM 10-15-2020 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3644200)
Hey, Sidewinder pretty much gave a negative critique of Paul Omans mechanics. Im just wondering if his own throw is superior.

So many issues to unpack.

1) Pointing out issues is not a "negative critique." Seems like you couldn't handle seeing any criticism whatsoever of something you deemed a "perfect showcase."

If you think it is perfect, then you must think pushing off the ground with your heel is ideal. So it follows that you think when you jump, run, etc. you should be doing so on your heels, and that anyone pushing off with their toes/ball of foot is doing it wrong.

2) You seem to be using Paul Oman as a proxy for yourself. Since you can't throw far, you are adopting someone who can in order to argue from a position of someone with 500' of distance. But wondering if someone else's throw is comparable to yet another person's throw won't improve your own throw. Regardless of the answer, the reality is you are still throwing 350' or whatever. You are not Paul Oman, nor are you SW. It is more productive to evaluate the throw/critique on its own merits, not on the thrower/critic.

3) Whether someone throws 500'+ doesn't really even seem to matter to you since you have disregarded advice from multiple 500'+ throwers.

4) SW's critique is actually useful as it points out what is going on both in terms of form but also mechanically. Not everyone has the levers that Paul Oman does. If someone with a shorter build were to copy Paul Oman exactly, they wouldn't get the same distance because of the different mechanical advantage. It's like those ball launchers for throwing a ball when playing with dogs. Having the longer lever makes a difference.

5) Do you want to be "right," (validate your theory) or do you want to "win" (improve your distance)? Before addressing any substantive content, your positions have been inconsistent, contradictory, and illogical. It seems like you are seeking validation over understanding. If you can demonstrate understanding (through specific substantive analysis rather than vague value judgments) then your words will hold more weight. "Seek first to understand, then to be understood."

azplaya25 10-15-2020 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoseDownKing (Post 3644255)
Can someone list down the proper kinetic sequence of a backhand throw?

Trying to start a proper conversation

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk


Good call!

I found this vid from 2015 from HUB. Hadn’t seen this one before but the angle and speed of his camera really shows the kinetic chain from a different angle.


https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...d.php?t=114205

SaROCaM 10-15-2020 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoseDownKing (Post 3644255)
Can someone list down the proper kinetic sequence of a backhand throw?

Trying to start a proper conversation

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

There's a pretty good list in the first post of the thread.

RoDeO 10-15-2020 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by navel (Post 3644218)
Great example video of what not to do.
Bad shoulder angle, dragging the disc along / rounding / "strong-shouldering", no brace, backwards x-step, open hips, open lead foot, the timing is way off, chicken wing follow through, flailing off-arm, bad balance... The list goes on.
Hmm.. May I suggest you try and be more explosive Rodeo? Lol. That might work for you! :D

What is a chicken wing follow through?

SaROCaM 10-15-2020 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3644266)
What is a chicken wing follow through?

Not sure what they were referring to. Didn't see anything that I would call a chicken wing. Probably just trying to make the list longer.

navel 10-15-2020 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3644266)
What is a chicken wing follow through?

Sorry english isn't my first language. What I mean is that you seem focus too much on turning your shoulders fast. What ends up happening is that your shoulders slam the brake when you are opening up. And your follow through stops short with your throwing arm having to slam down against your side like a wing instead of following through the shot. It's just a side effect of trying to force shoulder turn.

RoDeO 10-15-2020 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by navel (Post 3644287)
Sorry english isn't my first language. What I mean is that you seem focus too much on turning your shoulders fast. What ends up happening is that your shoulders slam the brake when you are opening up. And your follow through stops short with your throwing arm having to slam down against your side like a wing instead of following through the shot. It's just a side effect of trying to force shoulder turn.

Humm... My follow through often carries me completely around. You mentioned my x step was backwards. How so?

RoDeO 10-15-2020 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyC (Post 3644211)
Once again there are too many threads here to discuss pretty much the same thing but you could leave out the strong part in that term and just say arming. You can either do it with muscle tension or with a limp arm. Infact your throw is a good example of limp arming the disc.

Man running backwards with an internally rotated front shoulder turns forward and swings a limp arm out to external rotation, there is no shoulder turn which means there is no hips. That front shoulder gives the illusion and maybe the feel as if your shoulder were turning but thats not true. So you are just going from neutral to open.
https://youtu.be/RIY8hZh9UWw

What do you mean by limp arming the disc?

RandyC 10-15-2020 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3644309)
What do you mean by limp arming the disc?

Same thing as strong arming except with loose muscles, you should definently stay loose, nothing wrong with that. It is just that is your main source of power + little bit of momentum from your running. So the distance gain from it just a tiny bit more than strong arming the disc.

RoDeO 10-15-2020 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyC (Post 3644327)
Same thing as strong arming except with loose muscles, you should definently stay loose, nothing wrong with that. It is just that is your main source of power + little bit of momentum from your running. So the distance gain from it just a tiny bit more than strong arming the disc.

Well, you are wrong. My x step is super slow (less than walking speed) now and Im throwing farther.

RandyC 10-15-2020 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3644334)
Well, you are wrong. My x step is super slow (less than walking speed) now and Im throwing farther.

Maybe you are doing something different.

RoDeO 10-15-2020 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyC (Post 3644358)
Maybe you are doing something different.

I'm going slower. Going slower cleaned up some of the timing and made everything smoother.

seedlings 10-15-2020 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3644363)
I'm going slower. Going slower cleaned up some of the timing and made everything smoother.

I didn’t see that in the video.

RoDeO 10-15-2020 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seedlings (Post 3644433)
I didn’t see that in the video.

It's because that video was from a month's back. I've slowed down substantially since then.

RoDeO 10-15-2020 09:42 PM

Just remember in the swivel door drill that the arm isn't pulling the disc like you do in the door. Must engage the hips first and pull the door/disc with the hips/torso.

SaROCaM 10-15-2020 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3644599)
Just remember in the swivel door drill that the arm isn't pulling the disc like you do in the door. Must engage the hips first and pull the door/disc with the hips/torso.

It is there in multiple places in the video, with a summary at around 0:57. Watch what happens to the door when the hips shift forward. The hips are engaged.

RoDeO 10-15-2020 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaROCaM (Post 3644607)
It is there in multiple places in the video, with a summary at around 0:57. Watch what happens to the door when the hips shift forward. The hips are engaged.

Humm.. I watched it again and didn't see it. I think it's a great drill as long as one is pulling with their hips. It looks to me like he shifts his weight to the front leg and then he pulls the door with his arm and the shoulders lead rotation before the hips.

RoDeO 10-15-2020 11:11 PM

In fact. This may be the greatest drill to help people feel the difference between engaging the hips or strong arming. If one pulls with their hips it's right and if they pull with their arm it's strongarming.

RandyC 10-15-2020 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3644619)
Humm.. I watched it again and didn't see it. I think it's a great drill as long as one is pulling with their hips. It looks to me like he shifts his weight to the front leg and then he pulls the door with his arm and the shoulders lead rotation before the hips.

Can you post a video for me where shoulders lead rotation before the hips because itīs like magic to me.

RoDeO 10-16-2020 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyC (Post 3644632)
Can you post a video for me where shoulders lead rotation before the hips because itīs like magic to me.

What do you mean? Are you saying the shoulders rotating before the hips is what is magic for you? I'm confused.

RandyC 10-16-2020 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3644636)
What do you mean? Are you saying the shoulders rotating before the hips is what is magic for you? I'm confused.

guess the right term is turn but that is what you are constantly referring to, so yes, that is magic to me.

RoDeO 10-16-2020 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyC (Post 3644641)
guess the right term is turn but that is what you are constantly referring to, so yes, that is magic to me.

So, are you saying you start to turn your shoulders before your hips and that is magic for you? Is that what you are saying?

RandyC 10-16-2020 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3644645)
So, are you saying you start to turn your shoulders before your hips and that is magic for you? Is that what you are saying?

Okay. You are cut in half from the pelvis up. The only way to turn your shoulders 90 degrees would be to lift yourself up with your arms. That is because if you do not have hips the rotating system in our body would be the ballsocket in our shoulders but they are not located under the torso thus they cannot really turn the torso unless you lift yourself.

So to say that shoulders turn before the hips is impossible because hips are the ballsocket system that turns the shoulders get it?


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