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Whirlwind Disc Golf 06-05-2014 09:02 PM

Disc Golf on ball golf courses managed by American Golf
 
Does anyone know of any disc golf courses sharing space with a ball golf course managed by American Golf Corporation? Has anyone ever pitched disc golf to them? There may be an opportunity in my area where an executive course managed by AGC has recently added a foot golf course. The ball golf course isn't busy, but it does get a decent amount of play -- maybe 60-80 rounds a day.

Thanks in advance!
Leonard

ru4por 06-05-2014 09:12 PM

Foot golf. Like golf with a soccer ball?

CaptainAnhyzer 06-05-2014 09:52 PM

Colonial Acres in Glenmont NY just added disc golf to the existing course. Not managed by the AGC though.

Whirlwind Disc Golf 06-05-2014 10:31 PM

yes, footgolf
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ru4por (Post 2476058)
Foot golf. Like golf with a soccer ball?

http://www.footgolf.net/

They've gone from zero courses to about 100, including about 20 within 2 hours of the SF Bay Area, in less than 2 years. All their courses are installed on an operating ball golf course. I think it's pretty silly, but after seeing it on a ball golf course, I have to admit I want to try it.

ru4por 06-05-2014 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlabbyDaddy (Post 2476119)
http://www.footgolf.net/

They've gone from zero courses to about 100, including about 20 within 2 hours of the SF Bay Area, in less than 2 years. All their courses are installed on an operating ball golf course. I think it's pretty silly, but after seeing it on a ball golf course, I have to admit I want to try it.

Thanks Daddy, I looked it up. Seems pretty stupid to me, kicking a ball is not that hard. Of course that is after several years of childhood soccer, even then it seems kind of stupid. I am willing to bet that just as many people say the exact same thing about our game though. A lot more kids today have grown up with soccer, than frisbee.

filobedo 06-06-2014 06:54 AM

Not sure disc golf would appeal to the company because foot golf appears to be a revenue stream. The consensus I get from many dgers is they are not going to pay more than $5 - $10 per round. I played with a guy last week that told me Fontanel in Nashville was pulled shortly after installation because people had to pay to play and that deterred traffic.

jasonc 06-06-2014 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filobedo (Post 2476290)
Not sure disc golf would appeal to the company because foot golf appears to be a revenue stream. The consensus I get from many dgers is they are not going to pay more than $5 - $10 per round. I played with a guy last week that told me Fontanel in Nashville was pulled shortly after installation because people had to pay to play and that deterred traffic.

I would be happy to pay more than $10 per round for a well-manicured disc golf course that includes country club level facilities.

I know many others that would do the same. :thmbup:

mball1684 06-06-2014 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonc (Post 2476342)
I would be happy to pay more than $10 per round for a well-manicured disc golf course that includes country club level facilities.

I know many others that would do the same. :thmbup:

I know I would.

Jay Dub 06-06-2014 08:44 AM

I'd pay $10 per round on a course that was well-manicured. I don't think $10/round will be enough to have a country club level facility.

Jukeshoe 06-06-2014 08:55 AM

I've played one disc/ball golf course combo, and it was simply atrocious.

So bad, in fact, that the owners ended up pulling the baskets.

I'm sure it could be done correctly, but my experience on such a beast was less than impressive.

WhiteyBear 06-06-2014 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Dub (Post 2476357)
I'd pay $10 per round on a course that was well-manicured. I don't think $10/round will be enough to have a country club level facility.

Cart prices being the same, and I believe any course that charges less than half the rate for golf is a losing venture.

ru4por 06-06-2014 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteyBear (Post 2476415)
Cart prices being the same, and I believe any course that charges less than half the rate for golf is a losing venture.

To a degree, yes. But, putting 40 disc golfers on a course at half price is forgone revenue captured. My guess is, if the course could fill itself with ball golfers and was making money, they would not be interested in putting in a disc course.

This is one of my talking points to ball golfers whom I have encountered. When facing an opponent of disc on "their" course, I try to point out that if there was enough of "them" for the course to make money, I would not be invited by the course to be there.

Peter S 06-06-2014 12:12 PM

I did check out the foot golf video. It does not look like something I would consider playing. Looks like another new fad that we can hope will go away and not take away possible future disc golf locations.

BogeyNoMore 06-06-2014 12:52 PM

As a player, I thought they ended with a decent enough course here, but it needs signs and better tees to be really good.

As to whether or not this has truly benefitted the facility, I honestly have no clue. Our local club has been running tourneys there for a few years now.

WhiteyBear 06-06-2014 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter S (Post 2476617)
I did check out the foot golf video. It does not look like something I would consider playing. Looks like another new fad that we can hope will go away and not take away possible future disc golf locations.

Why? Because you don't like it? This is kind of how "birders" and naturalists feel when a disc golf course is put into their "territory". There will come a time when we need to stop depending on parks&rec to give us land, and start private ventures more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ru4por (Post 2476437)
To a degree, yes. But, putting 40 disc golfers on a course at half price is forgone revenue captured. My guess is, if the course could fill itself with ball golfers and was making money, they would not be interested in putting in a disc course.

This is one of my talking points to ball golfers whom I have encountered. When facing an opponent of disc on "their" course, I try to point out that if there was enough of "them" for the course to make money, I would not be invited by the course to be there.

Fair enough point, but that's also because of a slump in the economy, take it back to 2000-2004, and you probably would have those same courses ask you not to come back with that proposal. We have to remember that, if playing disc, we are on their course, built by golfers and sustained by golfers fees. Have to show some respect for what got us those courses in the first place.

Yeah, you'll get a nose turned up on you, I'd expect that as well. They want etiquette and respect for the game/land. Every new course built on a golf course has to be able to shed that stigma of a hippy game played by a bunch of hippies with no respect. And that's where we are.

So yeah, if anyone is playing on a golf course, and is only paying 5-10 bucks to play, consider that a HUGE subsidy. Maybe it's just to lure them in, and once they get the equipment paid for, look for those rates to probably climb substantially. Especially if business turns back around.

Hyzer Ale 06-06-2014 01:21 PM

I played one round of foot golf, it is fun. The difficulty comes in putting. When the hole is on a hill you need to read the green. I did not like that the golf course had the same greens fees as a round of ball golf though. We had a discounted round through Groupon. I know Sea Pines Golf Course in Los Osos has a disc golf course on the ball golf course that they added right after I moved from Los Osos.

ru4por 06-06-2014 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteyBear (Post 2476669)
Why? Because you don't like it? This is kind of how "birders" and naturalists feel when a disc golf course is put into their "territory". There will come a time when we need to stop depending on parks&rec to give us land, and start private ventures more.



Fair enough point, but that's also because of a slump in the economy, take it back to 2000-2004, and you probably would have those same courses ask you not to come back with that proposal. We have to remember that, if playing disc, we are on their course, built by golfers and sustained by golfers fees. Have to show some respect for what got us those courses in the first place.

Yeah, you'll get a nose turned up on you, I'd expect that as well. They want etiquette and respect for the game/land. Every new course built on a golf course has to be able to shed that stigma of a hippy game played by a bunch of hippies with no respect. And that's where we are.

So yeah, if anyone is playing on a golf course, and is only paying 5-10 bucks to play, consider that a HUGE subsidy. Maybe it's just to lure them in, and once they get the equipment paid for, look for those rates to probably climb substantially. Especially if business turns back around.

Competely agree. Though I don't know that the downward trend in ball golf popularity is mostly due to the economy, nor do I necessarily see a trend reversal, if they continue the current buisness model. With that said, I am probably one of the few that would pay a substantial membership fee to play a quailty, close course with amenities.

scarpfish 06-06-2014 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ru4por (Post 2476150)
Seems pretty stupid to me, kicking a ball is not that hard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter S (Post 2476617)
I did check out the foot golf video. It does not look like something I would consider playing. Looks like another new fad that we can hope will go away and not take away possible future disc golf locations.

^^
People who throw orbs of plastic at metal chain bearing contraptions having these sort of attitudes about a different niche sport kinda stink of hypocrisy if you ask me.

I see absolutely no threat from foot golfers, and actually think a foot golf and disc golf course would pair well together.

Jay Dub 06-06-2014 02:41 PM

I agree with scarpfish.

Kicking a ball is as hard as throwing a Frisbee. If you want to do it at a top level then it takes practice, just like throwing a Frisbee does.

hempies 06-06-2014 03:27 PM

^ Totally. My fringe game is cool, but yours.....

ru4por 06-06-2014 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ru4por (Post 2476150)
Thanks Daddy, I looked it up. Seems pretty stupid to me, kicking a ball is not that hard. Of course that is after several years of childhood soccer, even then it seems kind of stupid. I am willing to bet that just as many people say the exact same thing about our game though. A lot more kids today have grown up with soccer, than frisbee.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scarpfish (Post 2476734)
^^
People who throw orbs of plastic at metal chain bearing contraptions having these sort of attitudes about a different niche sport kinda stink of hypocrisy if you ask me.

I see absolutely no threat from foot golfers, and actually think a foot golf and disc golf course would pair well together.

Quoting my whole posts certainly demonstrates my agreement. Still think it is dumb, but concur that most think the same of our game. I would bet that foot golf has a better chance at catching on, and a better growth rate than disc golf.

Fntsygamr 06-06-2014 03:36 PM

There is a private course in Paradise, CA that offers both ball and disc golf. They have ball golf from 6am - 12pm and then they close off the ball golf to allow disc golf from 12pm - sundown. I have played there and it is a really nice course to play on. Lava Creek is the name.

knettles 06-06-2014 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ru4por (Post 2476795)
Quoting my whole posts certainly demonstrates my agreement. Still think it is dumb, but concur that most think the same of our game. I would bet that foot golf has a better chance at catching on, and a better growth rate than disc golf.

Here's the one reason I kinda doubt that. Foot golf courses pretty much need to be installed on golf courses. Disc golf can be installed on golf courses, in parks, through the woods, on farms, mountains, in caves (Crystal City anyone?), etc. There's virtually no limit to where a disc golf course can go. Foot golf however, like golf, is limited by needing to hit a ball off the ground. The ground therefore needs to be fairly clean and clear and not on a super steep hill. So, I'm not too worried about the sport beating disc golf out of the popular niche sport spotlight.

ballgolfconvert 08-21-2019 12:02 PM

A course near me had a foot golf course on the premises. While I never had the urge to try foot golf, I can say that it was irritating on the ball golf side. I used to play the ball golf course several times a week but stopped playing there and went elsewhere, because they kept closing 9 holes for the foot golf, even though I never saw more than 4-5 people out playing at any one time. I think for foot golf or disc golf to be successful they need to allow the groups to be incorporated on the course at the same time, which of course introduces some safety issues. Otherwise traffic for both will start to approach zero.

Casey 1988 09-03-2019 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scarpfish (Post 2476734)
^^
People who throw orbs of plastic at metal chain bearing contraptions having these sort of attitudes about a different niche sport kinda stink of hypocrisy if you ask me.

I see absolutely no threat from foot golfers, and actually think a foot golf and disc golf course would pair well together.

Foot Golf needs the same type of open that a golf course has so...No the sport will never pair well with Disc Golf nor will they ever end up on public parks like disc golf because Disc Golf can play in tighter spots then a golf course will or a foot golf course. it is an interesting idea but It will be a long time before it ever takes off like Disc Golf, even disc golf took 10 years of tournaments before the courses ever took off. I hope Foot Golf or Golf Ball as I am calling it does take off but only on Golf Courses and eventually becomes something called Golf Ball on TV as traditional Golf is failing due to all the cost to play with clubs and balls as well as shoes. The sports Golf Ball and Traditional Golf need smoother land to play on though the Golf Ball can use a bit more elevation or uneven ground in the game that Traditional Golf does not have by simply using a bigger ball.

zgmc 09-07-2019 01:51 PM

Traditional golf is failing? I don’t know about that.

Casey 1988 09-07-2019 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zgmc (Post 3494878)
Traditional golf is failing? I don’t know about that.

Not necessarily, the problem is the Tiger Woods effect where too many smaller 9 hole traditional golf courses failed that were put up during the time Tiger Woods went pro to the point that Mr. Woods had the affair go public and failed after that partially due to the economy. The courses were often small 9 hole ones that now with work could be disc golf courses for 18 hole courses that would with work be good courses. I have seen on YouTube 2 or 3 of these 9 hole courses become this disc golf course be it finished or that they had the plans to do this to these small courses made during the Tiger Woods effect.

Also Millennial's and Y generation are not playing traditional golf as much either they do not like the environmental impact and/or they do not afford to play golf as much or at all. Also boomers are playing golf less then before. Costs to maintain a Traditional golf course have gone up making it hard to keep them afloat simply due to the fact in the USA 95% these courses do not want to use grass that can handle the environment of water in the area.

DavidSauls 09-07-2019 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zgmc (Post 3494878)
Traditional golf is failing? I donít know about that.

"Failing" is a bit of hyperbole, but the number of courses has been going down every year, for more than a decade. Far more courses closing than opening; hence, the notion that some of the borderline ones might stay alive with additional income---disc golf, foot golf, etc.

zgmc 09-07-2019 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidSauls (Post 3494950)
"Failing" is a bit of hyperbole, but the number of courses has been going down every year, for more than a decade. Far more courses closing than opening; hence, the notion that some of the borderline ones might stay alive with additional income---disc golf, foot golf, etc.

Completely understandable that there wouldn't be many new courses opening. Think of the startup cost. That much land, close to a poplulation large enough to justify a course, is going to cost a small fortune.

DiscJunkie 09-08-2019 07:53 AM

I grew up in front of a municipal golf course in the 70's.
Membership was <$20 month for the family, unlimited play.
Started playing golf again in the 80's, and the yearly fee for a (different but similar) municipal course was $350/yr for the family, unlimited play.
If I wanted to play now, it would be several thousand per year, plus greens fees every time I played. Most private courses around here are $30-60 per round, a little less in the off-season.
My point is, golf has changed over the years, generally, into even more elitist and expensive than in the past.
It's not something that I want to get back into, that's why I play DG.

BogeyNoMore 09-08-2019 12:29 PM

I can just see foot golf enthusiasts geeking out the way plastic fondlers do. A few friends checking out the local pro shop before a round...

*cue soft focus for hazy dream sequence*

Quote:

Player A: "Hey, check out the new release from Adidas. Too bad they only have it in 450g... I'd be all over it if they had one the 420-430g range."

Player B: "Yeah, they're alright, but a bit too lively for my taste. Those tend to bounce and roll pretty far from where they land, so you hardly ever get the lie you planned on. I prefer one that's stays closer to where it hits the ground, so you can plan your next shot better."

Player C: "Yo, guys! Check out how this one feels. No, not like that, dude.
You really need to take your shoes and socks off to see how it feels coming of your instep."

And FWIW... I'd much rather be called a "Plastic Fondler" than a "Ball Fondler" any day... but that's just me.

Orioles_Lefty 09-08-2019 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscJunkie (Post 3495033)
I grew up in front of a municipal golf course in the 70's.
Membership was <$20 month for the family, unlimited play.
Started playing golf again in the 80's, and the yearly fee for a (different but similar) municipal course was $350/yr for the family, unlimited play.
If I wanted to play now, it would be several thousand per year, plus greens fees every time I played. Most private courses around here are $30-60 per round, a little less in the off-season.
My point is, golf has changed over the years, generally, into even more elitist and expensive than in the past.
It's not something that I want to get back into, that's why I play DG.

How much of that municipal bargain was underwritten w/taxpayer money and how much money is being contributed now? I have no investment in golf but the rising price to play has to be tied, in part, to loss of affordable municipal options, and the lack of that investment is tied to government austerity.

Granted, Iím not going to do research in this, so I donít have #thedata, but I suspect a decline in tax contributions is likely true. Having grown up playing ball golf in Louisville, KY, I was awash in an abundance of affordable municipal options but didnít really understand that until I moved away. The junior summer pass was ridiculously, stupidly cheap.

The Inside Line episode on Iron Hill made apparent the degree to which the course is almost exclusively maintained by volunteers. I donít see that happening at most ball golf courses for many reasons including the higher degree of expertise needed (grass lengths, chemicals, green management, watering, etc.). So when the funding lessens and prices increase, people find other things to do, as you point out.


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