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-   -   Brodie Smith PDGA #128378 (https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135632)

_MTL_ 02-24-2021 01:48 PM

Just a large collection of thousandaires with a phone and time.

VictorB 02-24-2021 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOtherBill (Post 3693173)
So their thinking is more "Get off my lawn!" than
"A rising tide lifts all boats" huh?

maybe it will force some of the players to actually be creative with their content instead of just posting practice rounds every event. The way Uli did his solo practice/course strategy video last week was fantastic, there needs to be more of that and less of "watch me throw this shot until I figure it out" type videos

Jomez practice rounds are super entertaining because it's way more relatable to going to the course with your buddies and trash talking

BuiltTooLong 02-24-2021 02:07 PM

I'm sure it's been a long time coming, but it kind of seems like a response to Paul posting his Doubles round w/Brodie on the Fountain Hills temp course. Viewers were able to watch the format, the course, and the winner all on his channel without subscribing to DGPT. It seems like less of a money grab (nobody is going to pay the 5k to film a practice round) and more of a way to increase viewership to the actual event.

Jimb 02-24-2021 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuiltTooLong (Post 3693184)
I'm sure it's been a long time coming, but it kind of seems like a response to Paul posting his Doubles round w/Brodie on the Fountain Hills temp course. Viewers were able to watch the format, the course, and the winner all on his channel without subscribing to DGPT. It seems like less of a money grab (nobody is going to pay the 5k to film a practice round) and more of a way to increase viewership to the actual event.

Genuine questions here.

The Fountain Hills event was a DGPT event. So would Innova (or any manufacturer) have anything to say about who films and who doesn't?

What is the timeframe for these Innova fees? Does the fee just apply to anyone filming and posting tournament rounds? Or does it apply to the course just the week of the tournament?

Thanks.

TheOtherBill 02-24-2021 02:24 PM

Fountain is always packed with people too, so is Innova or whoever going to lawyer up if a random person sees what's going on and films it? Would the TD call the cops to stop it?
Lot of murky areas here, without any real way to enforce any of it except among their own players...which seems to defeat the purpose. For example, having Paul do a practice round with Ricky would get a zillion views on Ricky's channel.

dorseymatt 02-24-2021 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _MTL_ (Post 3693172)
Glad this is happening.

The fact that these players think they can just film whatever they want and put it on their youtube channels or whatever is ridiculous.

This is one of those "you want bigger purses more attention and more money, well, here we are" type things.

Could you elaborate on why that is ridiculous?

Jay Dub 02-24-2021 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOtherBill (Post 3693190)
Fountain is always packed with people too, so is Innova or whoever going to lawyer up if a random person sees what's going on and films it? Would the TD call the cops to stop it?
Lot of murky areas here, without any real way to enforce any of it except among their own players...which seems to defeat the purpose. For example, having Paul do a practice round with Ricky would get a zillion views on Ricky's channel.

Only on social media. :\

If you think anything you asked are real concerns then black list Innova and DGPT. :rolleyes:

If/when they would see a top pro on youtube they would most probably react if this is real.

_MTL_ 02-24-2021 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dorseymatt (Post 3693192)
Could you elaborate on why that is ridiculous?

Disc golf is either in a public park, which generally requires a permit to make a film (and let's be honest, that's basically what is happening) or on private property, which means the owner can say no.

It's just an entitlement issue. The people outside of the top 10 really have to be creative to make touring life financially possible, so I get why thy are doing it. But they don't think about the other side.

I think it's brilliant for Innova, an Innova sponsored event, to enact this policy.

VictorB 02-24-2021 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOtherBill (Post 3693190)
Fountain is always packed with people too, so is Innova or whoever going to lawyer up if a random person sees what's going on and films it? Would the TD call the cops to stop it?

You mean Fountain Hills? That's a public park. Wildhorse is a private country club. Not sure exactly what the correlation is here?

Again, this isn't a new thing, Innova has been protecting media rights at both LVC and USDGC for the last few years.

davetherocketguy 02-24-2021 02:43 PM

I really do not understand what the heck is going on now. Someone have a Cliff Notes version with all the pertinent details?

_MTL_ 02-24-2021 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davetherocketguy (Post 3693202)
I really do not understand what the heck is going on now. Someone have a Cliff Notes version with all the pertinent details?

Innova said no one except innova players could film practice rounds unless they paid $5,0000.
hannah mcbeth and brodie tweeted about it.
conversation.

TheOtherBill 02-24-2021 02:55 PM

Debate aside, this is what The Great Carnac foretells:

The non-Innova players will do their cross-promotions and each gets a piece of the Brodie/Paul/Paige/Uli/KJUSA pie while Ricky and Calvin play practice rounds.

Which are you watching?

VictorB 02-24-2021 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davetherocketguy (Post 3693202)
I really do not understand what the heck is going on now. Someone have a Cliff Notes version with all the pertinent details?

Innova charging a $5000 media fee for all non-contracted content creators or non-Innova team members to film at LVC courses this week.

Many people butthurt, mainly big name pros with youtube channels.

Also many normies butthurt (ie over on r/discgolf) and that anyone should be allowed to film whatever they want at a private club that was essentially reserved for an event by a corporate entity for a week.

Normies not realizing that Innova has been doing this for LVC and USDGC for a few years now, but it's a big deal because Brodie and Hannah complained.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOtherBill (Post 3693211)
Which are you watching?

somewhere between all of them, or none of them - depends on how bored I get. None of that is 'must watch' in my book

TheOtherBill 02-24-2021 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VictorB (Post 3693212)
Innova charging a $5000 media fee for all non-contracted content creators or non-Innova team members to film..

Normies not realizing that Innova has been doing this for LVC and USDGC for a few years now,

So did Dickerson's wife pay $5k to be a 'media member' at the USDGC last year? :D:D:D

VictorB 02-24-2021 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOtherBill (Post 3693216)
So did Dickerson's wife pay $5k to be a 'media member' at the USDGC last year? :D:D:D

that seemed more like an 'I didn't know I couldn't do that, officer' type of instance.

dorseymatt 02-24-2021 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _MTL_ (Post 3693200)
Disc golf is either in a public park, which generally requires a permit to make a film (and let's be honest, that's basically what is happening) or on private property, which means the owner can say no.

It's just an entitlement issue. The people outside of the top 10 really have to be creative to make touring life financially possible, so I get why thy are doing it. But they don't think about the other side.

I think it's brilliant for Innova, an Innova sponsored event, to enact this policy.

You must be leaving things out of your argument, or your argument is not very compelling.

Timthenchant3r 02-24-2021 03:06 PM

Seems like a fair fight. I'm excited to see what workarounds the players will use. The best part about freedom of association is that if a big group of players find this policy too detrimental, they will skip these types of tournaments in the future and play in others that allow content creation prior to the event.

TheOtherBill 02-24-2021 03:13 PM

Didn't this come up in regards to the "what do you make/is it anyone's business" thread?

The power in disc golf comes from the players, not from the guys molding plastic.

brutalbrutus 02-24-2021 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timthenchant3r (Post 3693221)
Seems like a fair fight. I'm excited to see what workarounds the players will use. .

Low angle close ups of the player while throwing that don't actually show the course at all?

oldmandiscer 02-24-2021 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timthenchant3r (Post 3693221)
Seems like a fair fight. I'm excited to see what workarounds the players will use. The best part about freedom of association is that if a big group of players find this policy too detrimental, they will skip these types of tournaments in the future and play in others that allow content creation prior to the event.

Or they film anyways and challenge Innovas rule to enforce it. If a bunch of players said screw it I'm filming anyways what is Innova going to do? Kick them out from playing there? Then they are hurting their own tourney.

Honestly if I'm Hannah/Paul and Brodie I just film anyways and see what they do. You're not banning Paul from playing in your event are you? You should be PAYING him to show up!

davetherocketguy 02-24-2021 03:18 PM

So a private course is exercising its right to restrict who can and cannot film on their course because of contractual obligations?

Oh the humanity.

Streets 02-24-2021 03:19 PM

Is the $5grrr per event or for a season?

Jay Dub 02-24-2021 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOtherBill (Post 3693223)
Didn't this come up in regards to the "what do you make/is it anyone's business" thread?

The power in disc golf comes from the players, not from the guys molding plastic.

The guys molding plastic are the sponsors. How could the players do anything without the sponsorships from the "guys molding plastic"?

davetherocketguy 02-24-2021 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldmandiscer (Post 3693227)
Or they film anyways and challenge Innovas rule to enforce it. If a bunch of players said screw it I'm filming anyways what is Innova going to do? Kick them out from playing there? Then they are hurting their own tourney.

Honestly if I'm Hannah/Paul and Brodie I just film anyways and see what they do. You're not banning Paul from playing in your event are you? You should be PAYING him to show up!

That would be an incredibly tacky thing for the McBeths to do and I think (and hope) that such disrespectful behavior would be beneath them.

oldmandiscer 02-24-2021 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davetherocketguy (Post 3693234)
That would be an incredibly tacky thing for the McBeths to do and I think (and hope) that such disrespectful behavior would be beneath them.

I think charging players 5K to film is disrespectful and tacky.

davetherocketguy 02-24-2021 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldmandiscer (Post 3693238)
I think charging players 5K to film is disrespectful and tacky.

So do you think that a private course shouldn't be able to do that on their own property?

brutalbrutus 02-24-2021 03:33 PM

I don't think charging them a fee is necessarily a bad thing... but...


5k is just utterly ridiculous. How many DG vids have gotten enough views to generate 5k in revenue?...


It's 0 in case you didn't know.... I think its something like $1200 per MILLION views, and iirc CCDG's Philo vid is the only one that has gotten even remotely close.

davetherocketguy 02-24-2021 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brutalbrutus (Post 3693242)
I don't think charging them a fee is necessarily a bad thing... but...


5k is just utterly ridiculous. How many DG vids have gotten enough views to generate 5k in revenue?...


It's 0 in case you didn't know.... I think its something like $1200 per MILLION views, and iirc CCDG's Philo vid is the only one that has gotten even remotely close.


They wonít obviously. The $5k is merely to prevent the filming i the first place. They clearly donít expect anyone to pony up that many deneros.

oldmandiscer 02-24-2021 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davetherocketguy (Post 3693241)
So do you think that a private course shouldn't be able to do that on their own property?

I think they should but wether they should enforce it is another story.

Ahildy13 02-24-2021 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOtherBill (Post 3693223)
Didn't this come up in regards to the "what do you make/is it anyone's business" thread?

The power in disc golf comes from the players, not from the guys molding plastic.

Considering I can play without the pros, but I can't unless I have discs, I'd say you have this backwards.

Ahildy13 02-24-2021 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brutalbrutus (Post 3693242)
I don't think charging them a fee is necessarily a bad thing... but...


5k is just utterly ridiculous. How many DG vids have gotten enough views to generate 5k in revenue?...


It's 0 in case you didn't know.... I think its something like $1200 per MILLION views, and iirc CCDG's Philo vid is the only one that has gotten even remotely close.

Their revenue is from disc sales, bag sales, t-shirt sales, etc.
Youtube is how they MARKET themselves. Do you think Nike makes money when they are the official shoe sponsor of the NFL? No they spend a **** ton and give out a **** ton of free shoes, in hopes that little Billy will convince his mom to buy him those shoes.

Innova's $5,000 fee could be recouped many ways, disc sales, bag sales, whale sacs...

wims 02-24-2021 03:59 PM

delete

ToddL 02-24-2021 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOtherBill (Post 3693216)
So did Dickerson's wife pay $5k to be a 'media member' at the USDGC last year? :D:D:D

She was a legit media member with legit media credentials. Maybe they had to pay, maybe they had to meet certain criteria, I dunno.

TheOtherBill 02-24-2021 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ahildy13 (Post 3693247)
Considering I can play without the pros, but I can't unless I have discs, I'd say you have this backwards.

Someone who doesn't charge $5k to film 'their guys' would just make the discs. If you fail to change the change will still happen.

I'm not debating anything, I'm saying someone will make discs and we will buy them. If your business decisions fail to keep up with how that is done, you become Blockbuster - no one stopped making movies or watching them.

DiscFifty 02-24-2021 04:41 PM

The Discraft bros could just pay the 5k, play the course together and put the same video on all their channels. No biggie.

Ahildy13 02-24-2021 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOtherBill (Post 3693267)
Someone who doesn't charge $5k to film 'their guys' would just make the discs. If you fail to change the change will still happen.

I'm not debating anything, I'm saying someone will make discs and we will buy them. If your business decisions fail to keep up with how that is done, you become Blockbuster - no one stopped making movies or watching them.

Are you arguing that Innova will go out of business because of this? I'm trying to understand your point here.

They're not charging $5K to film their guys, they're charging $5K to film at their event.

davetherocketguy 02-24-2021 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscFifty (Post 3693269)
The Discraft bros could just pay the 5k, play the course together and put the same video on all their channels. No biggie.

Pretty sure if McBeth can afford a McClaren I'm going to bet he can poop out $5k if he wants to bad enough...

Now I would like to point out I am not 100% sure Brodie or Hanna are really complaining about the $5k but merely just explaining to their fans why they aren't filming there. I read Hanna's tweet as, "Hey this is why we aren't doing what we normally do so what do you peeps want to see?" and then Brodies retweet was along the line of, "discuss this topic."

sidewinder22 02-24-2021 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brutalbrutus (Post 3693242)
It's 0 in case you didn't know.... I think its something like $1200 per MILLION views, and iirc CCDG's Philo vid is the only one that has gotten even remotely close.

I think that is based on it only being a 1 minute vid. Looking at my measly adsense revenue, I could potentially recoup 5K with a million views (in a fantasy world) and that is just based off my average 6 min vid. Practice rounds are much longer and can generate more revenue with more ads.

Brodie is the only one who could pull that off since he has over 2 million subs, he already got 100K views in 5 days on his last one with Paul at the all star practice. He has 80 vids with over 1 million views, his top is 68 million. His only 2 disc golf related vids with over 1 million are old trick shots with Avery and Simon, got 4 and 2.5 million. His top dg only vid is his first DGPT round with about 600K.

Simon's top vid has almost 600K, most are closer to 100K.

Jomez has 5 vids with over 1 million, most are closer to 200K.

CCDG has 1 vid with over 1 million (Philo), most are closer to 100K.

My top vid has 35K, most are closer to 5K.

TheOtherBill 02-24-2021 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ahildy13 (Post 3693276)
I'm trying to understand your point here.

My points are:
1. Innova seems to be stuck in an outdated way of thinking when it comes to monetizing their product.
2. YouTubers working together is what will bring more money by bringing more eyeballs to their product, not making things more 'exclusive' so fewer people will see what you are offering.
3. Cross-promoting among players will never make any viewer unsubscribe to anyone's channel. In fact, the opposite is true.

Innova will probably always be Nike of our little game, but they also seem to be late to the party on a lot of the changes that have taken place over the last decade.
- Swirly star, shimmer and other methods of making discs beautiful. I gave away a color-changing red Lat64 Halo with gold sparkling as a CTP prize at a tourny in early 2012 and it was so beautiful the players passed it around and held it up in the sunlight. No joke, people couldn't help themselves but ooh and ahh. I didn't see anything like that from Innova for another 5 years or more.
- Players input on designing discs. Dave D will always be The Man, and he's earned that title for the rest of time in my eyes, but ya gotta listen instead of talking all the time. I think this was a big reason behind Greenwell/Wolfe and the other long-time Innova guys forming Prodigy.
- And definitely in behind in regards to social media. Rusco was really the first to jump on this and it has paid off for DD bigtime.
- Online sales. In 2011 they sent out a notice to all their dealers that you had to either be the local club or have an actual storefront to get wholesale pricing. I just started buying from SunKing at wholesale instead, was easier than dealing with Innova East even though they were only about 2 hours away.

davetherocketguy 02-24-2021 09:39 PM

The speculation in this thread is amazing.


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