You can see the hip rotating very well here into strong brace and then acceleration mode into release. That twisting, separation between hip and shoulders is what largely responsible for throwing far.
RandyC
10-21-2020 01:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoDeO
(Post 3646451)
So what pulls the disc through?
That is a weird question. Your arm duh. Where does the arm get all the power is the one you should be asking. I belive that has been explained in extreme detail to you in multiple threads already. My literal one leg throw the kinetic sequence is quite easy to spot, since I am not using my rear leg to start it. Ankle, knee, hip extension powers thru the core into the arm meanwhile my hip is turning my upper body out of the way of the swing.
On two legs the rear leg starts the chain but you have to shift into your front side from behind or it will not connect into your throwing arm and just send you spinning around the brace.
RandyC
10-21-2020 01:11 AM
We could end all this nonsense if you would just take some time to go out on to a field and learn to throw the proper way. I mean the difference in power is so massive that it´s really really hard to argue against it.
rhatton1
10-21-2020 07:33 AM
RoDeo have you seen this video? It may help you (it may not!) see what you are seeing in the pro videos the way we are seeing it. Trying to spin the hips throws from the back leg, it opens the shoulders it speeds everything through. Throwing from the front leg is a wildly different feeling but both can look very similar in the lower body mechanics if you snapshot and gif them but they are very different.
You are arguing against people with so much evidence to back up their theories, these guys have taught people from starting out to Open level cashing, tournament winning and outdriving their competition. They've taken proven technique from the whole wide world of sport and assimilated it. If one drill doesn't work for everyone, they come up with another and another. If they have been proven wrong on something in the past they've looked at it, worked on it and agreed, it's all documented through these forums, there is a refreshingly small amount of ego from the main people here. The process here is very scientific, in the weight of better evidence they don't stick dogmatically to their "truths" they admit where they have been wrong and adapt.
You've played for three months and you have the magic bullet which is contrary to their advice? You're correct, they're wrong? Stick yourself in any other situation and ask yourself how likely that scenario actually is?
You're also being told over and over that we've all been where you have... we have, we really have. We then found we were wrong.
Have you ever thrown with a player with true world class distance? Who actually throws putters 400' it is a very different thing and suddenly makes you realise that what you thought was possible is no where near what can be done with a disc.
I play regularly with and coach long throwing players, far longer than me! The best in this country. I also have the fortune to play on occasion with a former world record holder with flawless technique, the difference between him and the top players in my country is immense, compared to the "I'm averaging 350' internet distance" it's just another world. He doesn't spin his hips into the brace. He does throw further than all but 3 people in the world.
Try to take yourself away from this thread for a moment and look at it with some objectivity.
RocHucker
10-21-2020 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsammons
(Post 3646409)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Pa...r0AqKlXo60S0r1
...That’s what the hips do-they’re used as a counterweight to pull... Hip rotation is an effect-when you pull like this, and the disc is accelerated out, the whole body rotates. The cause of the rotation is using the hips as a counterweight as exhibited by the leftmost arrow. That’s what the throw feels like-and the arm gets slung very, very quickly as shown by the down most arrow.
I've read this before, about the hips being a "counterweight", but it makes no sense to me. I'm not saying that it's wrong, I'm just saying that I can't wrap my head around it. My mind works best in terms of physics / free body diagram terms, and it sounds like you might have a similar background bsammons, so maybe you can help me navigate the following thoughts:
A) In order to counterweight a rotation, a mass must be offset from the axis of that rotation.
B) The spine is more or less the axis of rotation for a disc golf backhand drive.
C) The center of mass of the hips is more or less in line with the spine.
Taking A, B, and C together, I can't see how a mass (the hips) that lies on an axis of rotation (the spine) can counterweight that rotation. What am I misunderstanding here?
It’s not letting me embed from photobucket anymore but there’s the photo in google Drive.
Yes that is me, and yes that’s the exactly feeling I have when throwing my best, wheeled off 450-500+. I’ve got it recorded if you don’t think it’s the same thing
I'm a bit confused by the photo. Which direction are you "throwing", and is that meant to represent the moment of release?
azplaya25
10-21-2020 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoDeO
(Post 3646397)
Yeah, watch these rear leg very carefully. The knee turning in signifies hip rotation initiation. That's happening before the brace. Realize that the brace doesn't actually take place until a moment after the heel has come down. In your GIF he isn't in strong brace yet and his hip is already rotating. That's the whole point I keep bringing up.
If you are convinced that he rotates a fraction of a second before the brace, then so be it. I don’t think people would care that much if you wanted to just cling to this belief. The problem is you then proceed to proclaim that throwing a hammer and throwing off of one leg is pointless. You post gifs of rotating all the way into the brace, so your hand is in front of your body before you brace. Do you know why the hammer claw keeps catching your torso? Because you are rounding, because your rotating before you brace. That’s what’s so awesome about throwing a hammer. You get immediate feedback if you strong arm or round.
RoDeO
10-21-2020 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhatton1
(Post 3646472)
RoDeo have you seen this video? It may help you (it may not!) see what you are seeing in the pro videos the way we are seeing it. Trying to spin the hips throws from the back leg, it opens the shoulders it speeds everything through. Throwing from the front leg is a wildly different feeling but both can look very similar in the lower body mechanics if you snapshot and gif them but they are very different.
You are arguing against people with so much evidence to back up their theories, these guys have taught people from starting out to Open level cashing, tournament winning and outdriving their competition. They've taken proven technique from the whole wide world of sport and assimilated it. If one drill doesn't work for everyone, they come up with another and another. If they have been proven wrong on something in the past they've looked at it, worked on it and agreed, it's all documented through these forums, there is a refreshingly small amount of ego from the main people here. The process here is very scientific, in the weight of better evidence they don't stick dogmatically to their "truths" they admit where they have been wrong and adapt.
You've played for three months and you have the magic bullet which is contrary to their advice? You're correct, they're wrong? Stick yourself in any other situation and ask yourself how likely that scenario actually is?
You're also being told over and over that we've all been where you have... we have, we really have. We then found we were wrong.
Have you ever thrown with a player with true world class distance? Who actually throws putters 400' it is a very different thing and suddenly makes you realise that what you thought was possible is no where near what can be done with a disc.
I play regularly with and coach long throwing players, far longer than me! The best in this country. I also have the fortune to play on occasion with a former world record holder with flawless technique, the difference between him and the top players in my country is immense, compared to the "I'm averaging 350' internet distance" it's just another world. He doesn't spin his hips into the brace. He does throw further than all but 3 people in the world.
Try to take yourself away from this thread for a moment and look at it with some objectivity.
The video says lateral shift causes rotation. I'm curious- How come I cam jump back and forth, from side to side, even powerfully, and get absolutely no hip rotation from lateral shift alone?
RoDeO
10-21-2020 09:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyC
(Post 3646455)
That is a weird question. Your arm duh. Where does the arm get all the power is the one you should be asking. I belive that has been explained in extreme detail to you in multiple threads already. My literal one leg throw the kinetic sequence is quite easy to spot, since I am not using my rear leg to start it. Ankle, knee, hip extension powers thru the core into the arm meanwhile my hip is turning my upper body out of the way of the swing.
On two legs the rear leg starts the chain but you have to shift into your front side from behind or it will not connect into your throwing arm and just send you spinning around the brace.
Im curious why your shoulders start rotating open just before your hips in the video. If your hip is turning your upper body how is this possible?
RoDeO
10-21-2020 09:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by azplaya25
(Post 3646482)
If you are convinced that he rotates a fraction of a second before the brace, then so be it. I don’t think people would care that much if you wanted to just cling to this belief. The problem is you then proceed to proclaim that throwing a hammer and throwing off of one leg is pointless. You post gifs of rotating all the way into the brace, so your hand is in front of your body before you brace. Do you know why the hammer claw keeps catching your torso? Because you are rounding, because your rotating before you brace. That’s what’s so awesome about throwing a hammer. You get immediate feedback if you strong arm or round.
Go back and watch the video of Sidewinder throwing the hammer alongside his throwing a disc. It's rather apparent there are two different mechanics going on.
