Originally Posted by bsammons (Post 3647489)

I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. Rotation is not the goal. Rotation is a byproduct of using your trail side as leverage, like pulling a post out of the ground, to pull the disc, mainly with your lats, towards the target.

Originally Posted by timothy42b (Post 3647549)

I don't think that's correct, or at least it's incomplete. It is the goal.

Rotation must happen. It's what assembles the package and produces the speed in the distal element of the chain.

Rotation in other sports is produced by two mechanisms. A linear motion is stopped by the off center brace, and the momentum transfers to the rotation. Secondly, rotation is powered directly by one foot pushing and one foot pulling. The force plate videos show pretty clearly that the direct rotation forces are larger than the linear especially for the long ball competitors.

I think what you mean by "not the goal" is that it is counterproductive to focus on trying to do it.

What the ratio of those two elements is for disc golf won't be known until we get some throwers on those force plates.

Originally Posted by timothy42b (Post 3647549)

I don't think that's correct, or at least it's incomplete. It is the goal.

Rotation must happen. It's what assembles the package and produces the speed in the distal element of the chain.

Rotation in other sports is produced by two mechanisms. A linear motion is stopped by the off center brace, and the momentum transfers to the rotation. Secondly, rotation is powered directly by one foot pushing and one foot pulling. The force plate videos show pretty clearly that the direct rotation forces are larger than the linear especially for the long ball competitors.

I think what you mean by "not the goal" is that it is counterproductive to focus on trying to do it.

What the ratio of those two elements is for disc golf won't be known until we get some throwers on those force plates.

Originally Posted by SaROCaM (Post 3647534)

1) You are focusing on a component. Think of the entire body as a system.

2) The bird's eye view of the GIF might be good for you since it takes away that rear knee movement that seems to be confusing you. Watch the sequence: shift, then plant/brace, then front leg compression/extension providing power.

Originally Posted by bsammons (Post 3647545)

The gif you posted clearly shows the right hip and glute stay in place. I reiterate-the axis of rotation is not the spine. It’s the brace.

Rodeo I’m going to present you with a grim reality that appears not to have set in. Nobody’s “staying with you”. Nobody’s listening to you and changing their form because of something you say. Nobody thinks you’re right but yourself.

You continually insist reality is something different than it actually is, and point out things you believe are logical fallacies and just state that they aren’t true with no concrete evidence.

You sometimes even bring evidence forth that doesn’t prove your point but try and utilize it as proof. You’re in a state of denial about the actual physics of the throw.

It’s taken me years to get to the level of understanding I’m at now. I’m trying to save you from the same fate, but you insist on not letting me. If you want to ignore my advice as well as everyone else’s on this forum you have the freedom to do so. But you aren’t changing anyone’s mind, and if you ignore everyone here’s advice, then you’re going to continue to live in your own little world, fueled by elective ignorance and your pride.

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3647560)

If what you say is true then why isnt the axis of the shoulders pivoting around the brace leg? The shoulders are unwinding, so to speak, around the same axis of the hips and torso. If it were true that the axis was around the brace leg then one should be able to draw a line straight down the axis or pivot point of the shoulders down to the foot. But thats not what we see. What we see is a perfect overview of the line going exactly down the center of his back around his spine all the way down to his waist area.

Originally Posted by RowingBoats (Post 3647564)

Rodeo,

If you stand facing an intended line squared up, and press off of what is normally your rear foot, then rotate the opposite direction you will end up swinging, can you brace that momentum and complete your swing? I am not saying this is more efficient, but it completely removes the idea of rotating before the brace, and at least for me gives the same overall feeling.

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3647560)

If what you say is true then why isnt the axis of the shoulders pivoting around the brace leg? The shoulders are unwinding, so to speak, around the same axis of the hips and torso. If it were true that the axis was around the brace leg then one should be able to draw a line straight down the axis or pivot point of the shoulders down to the foot. But thats not what we see. What we see is a perfect overview of the line going exactly down the center of his back around his spine all the way down to his waist area.

Originally Posted by bsammons (Post 3647563)

Again you totally ignore 90% of my post but I’m invested at this point so I’ll bite. Again.
It’s a tilted axis. An athletic tilt balanced over the brace leg. The trail side on one side, the arm and exterior of the shoulder balanced out on the other. If rotation is what you seek, then look at his left hip. It practically stays in place. It’s leveraging the side with the arm, again, balanced over the brace. The brace HAS to be the axis of rotation. It’s literally grounded. But regardless.

Rotation is NOT the goal.

I’ll post a video explaining it this afternoon if you’d like. But you’re just going to pick one tiny detail and try and prove it wrong when your fundamental concept of the throw is, again, wrong.