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-   -   The Twitch of the Hips (https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137717)

RoDeO 10-21-2020 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyC (Post 3646456)
We could end all this nonsense if you would just take some time to go out on to a field and learn to throw the proper way. I mean the difference in power is so massive that itīs really really hard to argue against it.

Im throwing the proper way. I haven't videoed myself in a while since I slowed everything down but I look like everyone else. The difference is I understand the mechanics and sequence correctly in my head. That gives me an edge moving forwards.

azplaya25 10-21-2020 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3646493)
The video says lateral shift causes rotation. I'm curious- How come I cam jump back and forth, from side to side, even powerfully, and get absolutely no hip rotation from lateral shift alone?


Film yourself jumping back and forth laterally, then watch it in slow mo. Better yet post it here. I bet you see some hip rotation. Feel ainít real

navel 10-21-2020 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3646493)
The video says lateral shift causes rotation. I'm curious- How come I cam jump back and forth, from side to side, even powerfully, and get absolutely no hip rotation from lateral shift alone?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong please:

Because when the front heel goes down to brace, and the back heel goes up to deweight, the hips are automatically turned just enough to spin around the center of gravity. They are never supposed to be turned forcefully.

When a correct throw is being performed:
The brace will stop the front hip in place and even push back just a an inch or two. And the back hip will start turning around the center. It's a spring! Everything else will follow effortlessly.
This needs to happen after brace, or else there will be no spring effect. If you turn your hips forcefully before brace it translates to:
*Trying to jump on a trampoline by pushing the leg straight forcefully before you have even landed from your previous jump
*Trying to shoot an arrow on a bow by drawing it back and then push it forward as fast as you can.
*Trying to make a push up by rotating your forearms and upper arms around your elbows and shoulders. This even sound confusing typing it out.


For a beginner it may seem like if you just try to forcefully magnify how your body reacts to an athletic skill. Then it will be more powerful.
What really is powerful is using forces to your advantage. It's much more powerful to let the hips brace and spin around the short lever that is being created if you travel forward and brace hard with just a little offset.

RowingBoats 10-21-2020 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3646506)
Im throwing the proper way. I haven't videoed myself in a while since I slowed everything down but I look like everyone else. The difference is I understand the mechanics and sequence correctly in my head. That gives me an edge moving forwards.

So you can successfully generate a ground up kinetic chain balanced on your lead leg now? Or not? I think that is probably one surefire way to ensure you have moved on from the deliberate rotation paradigm.

RandyC 10-21-2020 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3646498)
Im curious why your shoulders start rotating open just before your hips in the video. If your hip is turning your upper body how is this possible?

You really need an anatomy lesson. I am guessing you are watching my rear shoulder going from external to internal rotation as my hand moves. That is not a shoulder turn. My collarbone moves in sync with my hip, frame by frame.

RandyC 10-21-2020 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azplaya25 (Post 3646507)
Film yourself jumping back and forth laterally, then watch it in slow mo. Better yet post it here. I bet you see some hip rotation. Feel ainít real

Itīs possible you just have keep your legs straight and stiff. Tip your upper body back and forth, dunno why anyone would do that.

RoDeO 10-21-2020 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azplaya25 (Post 3646507)
Film yourself jumping back and forth laterally, then watch it in slow mo. Better yet post it here. I bet you see some hip rotation. Feel ainít real

https://youtu.be/TReQAwxCr7M

I was trying really hard to stop my lateral shift and get that rotation. Never happened. My next video will be me doing the same but trying to rotate somehow once I land on the front leg.

RowingBoats 10-21-2020 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3646569)
https://youtu.be/TReQAwxCr7M

I was trying really hard to stop my lateral shift and get that rotation. Never happened. My next video will be me doing the same but trying to rotate somehow once I land on the front leg.

You are falling over the top, not bracing correctly. Brace more like a hockey stop on ice skates, then extend the lead knee.

RowingBoats 10-21-2020 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RowingBoats (Post 3646584)
You are falling over the top, not bracing correctly. Brace more like a hockey stop on ice skates, then extend the lead knee.

You are also going to have to load your shoulders in order to really feel the transfer of lateral momentum into the uncorking rotation in the hit.

bsammons 10-21-2020 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocHucker (Post 3646474)
I've read this before, about the hips being a "counterweight", but it makes no sense to me. I'm not saying that it's wrong, I'm just saying that I can't wrap my head around it. My mind works best in terms of physics / free body diagram terms, and it sounds like you might have a similar background bsammons, so maybe you can help me navigate the following thoughts:

A) In order to counterweight a rotation, a mass must be offset from the axis of that rotation.
B) The spine is more or less the axis of rotation for a disc golf backhand drive.
C) The center of mass of the hips is more or less in line with the spine.

Taking A, B, and C together, I can't see how a mass (the hips) that lies on an axis of rotation (the spine) can counterweight that rotation. What am I misunderstanding here?

Itís tricky for sure, so maybe I can shed some light - also none of this is meant in trying to make your thoughts sound ridiculous, just sharing understanding that Iíve developed over the years of playing.

To answer the other postís question, that would be the moment before release of a backhand drive, disc being thrown directly at the camera (more or less)

Itís really easy to feel the ďcounterweightĒ feel when trying to pull a post out of the ground on one leg, like I had done in the photo.

The spine cannot be the center of rotation because it is not whatís grounded. The right foot, whether it be the heel or ball of the foot, creates the center of rotation. So that accounts for B and somewhat C.
With the right leg, which Iíll refer to as the brace from here on, being the center of rotation, then that puts the right arm on one side of the COR and the spine/trail leg/hip/head/rest of the body on the other side. I want to reiterate-the spine can not be the center of rotation in order to maximize efficiency. Center of rotation comes from the ground up, which HAS to be the heel, to the knee, to the right femur entering the pelvis. Thatís the center of rotation.

So with knowledge of momentum and physics which you have, then you can deduce from there:
1. In order to be balanced, equal and opposite forces must be in place.
2. The weight of the hip and direction of the braceís force (up and to the left in the photo I posted) move one side to the left
3. In order to stay balanced, the only force that can counter the trail sideís weight would be...
The arm, swung by the lat. That gives an incredible amount of counterweight force to the only thing on the opposite side of the brace, the arm. So in order to stay balanced, the arm swings (equal and opposite) and launches the disc with extraordinary force, and relative ease.

Maybe that answered your question? I hope so haha


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