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R-Ogre 04-11-2020 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davetherocketguy (Post 3573512)
Even in Detroit...one of the COVID hot spots Hospitals are laying people off:

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...NvqGyBN_9T6Hgs

Just seems so backwards to me. This is not good. If the hospitals aren't making money it makes it harder for them to pay the people who are treating the COVID patients, buy PPE, etc...

Maybe whatís backwards is the whole concept of hospitals as a money-making enterprise?

davetherocketguy 04-11-2020 12:11 AM

Amazing...

Army field hospital for Covid-19 surge leaves Seattle after 9 days. It never saw a patient

davetherocketguy 04-11-2020 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R-Ogre (Post 3573515)
Maybe whatís backwards is the whole concept of hospitals as a money-making enterprise?

There are oodles of things that seem backwards to me in this entire situation.

R-Ogre 04-11-2020 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davetherocketguy (Post 3573517)

Iím sure that has nothing to do with:
Seattle had the first confirmed case and was on their guard
Many tech companies were proactive about having people work from home
Gov. Inslee was ahead of much of the nation in instituting social distancing measures
UW hospital system has been on the leading edge of researching testing and treatment

Instead itís because itís a massive liberal ploy to ruin the economy and make Dotard Donny lose.

LateWesternSky 04-11-2020 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davetherocketguy (Post 3573519)
There are oodles of things that seem backwards to me in this entire situation.

Overpreparing for a pandemic is backwards to you? Sure, ideally you would want to prepare the exact amount of resources needed, but that is unrealistic. Better to overprepare than underprepare.

davetherocketguy 04-11-2020 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LateWesternSky (Post 3573521)
Overpreparing for a pandemic is backwards to you? Sure, ideally you would want to prepare the exact amount of resources needed, but that is unrealistic. Better to overprepare than underprepare.

Ahhh putting words in my mouth I see. The only thing I said to that situation was that it was "amazing."

davetherocketguy 04-11-2020 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LateWesternSky (Post 3573521)
Overpreparing for a pandemic is backwards to you? Sure, ideally you would want to prepare the exact amount of resources needed, but that is unrealistic. Better to overprepare than underprepare.

See this is why I should never provide an opinion here on DGCR ever again. Y'all are so egar to put words in the mouths of people who might be slightest bit critical or otherwise buck the collective DGCR narrative. God forbid someone have a differing opinion. I don't care if hospitals over prepare - I never said I have an issue with THAT.

Why tf do I even bother

Emoney 04-11-2020 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davetherocketguy (Post 3573525)
See this is why I should never provide an opinion here on DGCR ever again. Y'all are so egar to put words in the mouths of people who might be slightest bit critical or otherwise buck the collective DGCR narrative. God forbid someone have a differing opinion. I don't care if hospitals over prepare - I never said I have an issue with THAT.

Why tf do I even bother

Maybe u will have better political arguments in the political threads...jus sayin

LateWesternSky 04-11-2020 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davetherocketguy (Post 3573525)
See this is why I should never provide an opinion here on DGCR ever again. Y'all are so egar to put words in the mouths of people who might be slightest bit critical or otherwise buck the collective DGCR narrative. God forbid someone have a differing opinion. I don't care if hospitals over prepare - I never said I have an issue with THAT.

Why tf do I even bother

My apologies, I don't mean to offend you. But based on other posts you have made, you seem to think we are overreacting to coronavirus. All I am trying to show is that (imo) an overeaction is better than an undereaction in this case.

If you don't care that hospitals overprepare, than I am confused as to why you linked multiple articles of hospitals overpreparing and said something seemed backwards.

Either way, it's good to look at things from multiple perspectives. Therefore, I appreciate your posts on this topic even if I don't agree with them.

BogeyNoMore 04-11-2020 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davetherocketguy (Post 3573519)
There are oodles of things that seem backwards to me in this entire situation.

No doubt. Seems our Federal and State gov'ts are flying by the seat of their pants on this. down the road, several of the decisions that have been made will seem stupid. Apparently, this isn't something we have a playbook for. And if we do, nobody bothered to distribute it, because now the coaches really just need to know what play to call. What's some of the most extreme calls have been an attempt to make relatively proactive decisions.

BogeyNoMore 04-11-2020 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davetherocketguy (Post 3573512)
Even in Detroit...one of the COVID hot spots Hospitals are laying people off:

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...NvqGyBN_9T6Hgs

Just seems so backwards to me. This is not good. If the hospitals aren't making money it makes it harder for them to pay the people who are treating the COVID patients, buy PPE, etc...

OK...I did not know this. Just hearing it, it sounds effed up...but I haven't read the story. I just want to take a shower and go the hell to sleep.

brutalbrutus 04-11-2020 04:51 AM

I don't know what freep is but MSNBC has been talking about this for a couple weeks. Some hospitals that aren't in heavily affected areas have seen a massive drop in admissions and ER visits because either people aren't going out as much, so there isn't the usual amount of car crashes, fights, shootings, etc, or people are just flat out scared to go to the hospital. They aren't taking their kids to ERs for every little thing. Some people are choosing not to go to the ER because they're scared they're having a heart attack when its really just indigestion. Or they really did have a minor heart attack and didn't go. There was a doc on MSNBC the other night talking about when people do come to the ER, they're in worse shape because they didn't go right away. Also, elective surgeries are way down in a lot of areas, either because they've been canceled by the hospitals, or just like car accidents being less frequent, people aren't going out and getting their knees wrecked, or shoulders, or backs playing sports.

On top of that, hospitals are buying up PPE and ventilators trying to stock-up before a surge could hit them and between that and the lack of income from their normal patients, there isn't enough money to pay all the employees. That's why a lot of hospitals need the grant money from the feds.

Smigles 04-11-2020 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brutalbrutus (Post 3573547)
On top of that, hospitals are buying up PPE and ventilators trying to stock-up before a surge could hit them and between that and the lack of income from their normal patients, there isn't enough money to pay all the employees. That's why a lot of hospitals need the grant money from the feds.

There is something fundamentaly wrong when profit is the deciding factor in how you run a hospital. Health care is public interest, just like education, infrastructure and the justice system. It's a duty of the state.

All around the world we are again saving companies with trillions of dineros that strangly are never available when you need them to improve stuff that is actually in the public interest.

Call me a leftist all you want, but redistribution of wealth is supposed to go from the rich to the poor. Last 50 years it's been the other way around, we redistribute from the tax payers (poor) to the stake holders (0.001%).

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore (Post 3573540)
No doubt. Seems our Federal and State gov'ts are flying by the seat of their pants on this. down the road, several of the decisions that have been made will seem stupid. Apparently, this isn't something we have a playbook for. And if we do, nobody bothered to distribute it, because now the coaches really just need to know what play to call. What's some of the most extreme calls have been an attempt to make relatively proactive decisions.

If only there were some sort of pandemic task force last year :D

brutalbrutus 04-11-2020 06:37 AM

Don't worry, you won't get called a leftist by me. According to a certain poster on these boards, I'm the worst "leftist" in history...


;)

Smigles 04-11-2020 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brutalbrutus (Post 3573552)
Don't worry, you won't get called a leftist by me. According to a certain poster on these boards, I'm the worst "leftist" in history...


;)

Someone in the politics subforum called me that, too.

I think to get to their state of mind you need to draw everything black or white. Anyone not agreeing with them is the worst communist/socialist/insert buzzword insult.

I think it's a side effect of your two party system. There are no middle grounds, only extremes that are either dooming the entire planet or god's gift to mankind.

da Crippler 04-11-2020 07:51 AM

Stupid selfish kkkri$tian$ are the single biggest threat to our safety as a nation.:mad:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/11/us/ke...rnd/index.html

DavidSauls 04-11-2020 08:09 AM

Wow, this thread's like a carton of milk, left on the countertop.

It really soured overnight*.

* - My time.

davetherocketguy 04-11-2020 08:45 AM

They laid off 60 hospital workers in Detroit but the Army Corps just completed a temporary medical facility.

I wonder if the government will be smart enough to employ all those laid off in this temp facility. I'm not holding my breath.

Streets 04-11-2020 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brutalbrutus (Post 3573552)
Don't worry, you won't get called a leftist by me. According to a certain poster on these boards, I'm the worst "leftist" in history...


;)

I'm pretty sure anything to the left of alt-right is considered a leftist by that douchebag.

robdeforge 04-11-2020 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davetherocketguy (Post 3573517)

what is amazing about it?

Jay Dub 04-11-2020 10:58 AM

Ky Gov told church goers if they assemble for Easter service pictures of their license plates will be taken and those people will be expected to quarantine for 14 days.
I'm not sure how that will be enforced assuming there will be a lot of people at these services.

BogeyNoMore 04-11-2020 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brutalbrutus (Post 3573547)
I don't know what freep is but MSNBC has been talking about this for a couple weeks.

= Detroit Free Press... very legit, local paper that's been around since the 1800's. People just refer to it as "The Freep" around here... So I guess they decided to use that as their web address.

Ess-dog 04-11-2020 12:33 PM

https://www.argusleader.com/story/ne...em/5130027002/

This is a crazy outbreak. 190 workers so far. Just cleaning and checking temps in a closes quarters high output factories is not going to suffice. America is full of these places. In locations that may have difficulties managing the resulting quaarantine of families and medical response. Also interesting since this is one of the states that would be on the list of places that aren't being affected "that bad".

ru4por 04-11-2020 12:36 PM

A bunch of truth in the last bunch of posts. So...IMO, ER visits are down for a few reasons. Brutal hit on one, people are simply doing FAR less to injure themselves. ER have been being used as doctor's offices and urgent care for years. Those visits are way down as well, many just not going to the ER when little Johnny threw up last nights tuna casserole. People with suspected COVID are told to call their primary care physicians. They have very strict guidelines on whom to send to the hospital. Only those with severe shortness of breath are directed to head to the ER.

Hospitals are business...big business. They are driven by money, profit and growth. Many are for profit, some are non profit. Makes no real difference though. As much as I would like them to be altruistic entrerprises, they simply are not. Are they are hemorrhaging money, at this point.

As some know, I have been working at one of my system's hospitals. As of today, I have been pulled out of the hospital, which they seem to be shutting down. I am not sure what the plan is. Maybe clean it and open the ER and OR back up to revert it to a regular operating hospital (up to now it was a COVID + only facility)? Poor communication is making it hard to figure out. We have shipped most of our recovering patients to the federally built COBO hall, temp hospital. A thousand bed facility with less than 50 patients.

I think over prepare was the plan. I cannot discredit forward thinking, as it is much better than the knee jerk reaction alternative.

DG_player 04-11-2020 02:51 PM

There are two large hospital systems in our area. One of them received a lot of criticism for taking a cavalier approach to the situation, and were accused of putting profit over safety. They continued with elective surgeries, etc. They claimed they were adequately prepared (sufficient PPE etc.). Currently the daily confirmed cases in our area have been declining and we appear to be near our peak, and the hospitals are no where near their stress point. So maybe they made the right decision. A lot of the credit for that should go to our governor since he was one of the first to make major steps to contain the spread, before worse off places like NY and elsewhere.

davetherocketguy 04-11-2020 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by da Crippler (Post 3573554)
Stupid selfish kkkri$tian$ are the single biggest threat to our safety as a nation.:mad:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/11/us/ke...rnd/index.html

By golly the liquor stores are still open though.

Liquor stores are essential. :|

Broken Shoulder 04-11-2020 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davetherocketguy (Post 3573684)
By golly the liquor stores are still open though.

Liquor stores are essential. :|

Alcohol withdrawal would end up hospitalizing or killing a large number of people.

Twmccoy 04-11-2020 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robdeforge (Post 3573572)
what is amazing about it?

Amazing that the media continues to overstate the amount of hospital space needed for coronavirus patients. Even in NY they have far more beds than are needed. The doom and gloom estimates in the hardest hit cities were way off.

brutalbrutus 04-11-2020 05:48 PM

They weren't way off. They were models based on spread rate and population density. People have been for the most part heeding the stay at home orders which has changed the spread rate. Like ru4 said, its better to plan for the worst and the worst didn't happen because people were being responsible. Its not a bad thing...

Hampstead 04-11-2020 06:34 PM

Reading through these posts, it is interesting to see how some folks process information.

DavidSauls 04-11-2020 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hampstead (Post 3573726)
Reading through these posts, it is interesting to see how some folks process information.

It's conclusion-based research. Start with a conclusion, find facts that support it.

It's more efficient than learning.

Ess-dog 04-11-2020 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hampstead (Post 3573726)
Reading through these posts, it is interesting to see how some folks process information.

We are predisposed to cherry picking due to our fragile sensibilities.

McCready 04-11-2020 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hampstead (Post 3573726)
Reading through these posts, it is interesting to see how some folks process information.

Absolutely. One thing I keep struggling with is this feeling that a huge percentage of Americans are unbelievably ignorant and stupid and that we have an education & critical thinking crisis in this country, and I often contemplate retiring somewhere else. And the people denying the seriousness of this pandemic, calling it fake, blaming cell towers etc. are just the latest ****show reinforcing that. But at the same time I often suspect Iím succumbing to some failure of logic along the way, like confirmation bias or just failing to expose myself to a fuller picture of humanity. If the hospital surge is less than predicted because more people than expected actually are taking it seriously and taking the necessary steps, then obviously thatís really encouraging and I can maybe peel back a layer of my cynicism.

Hate to say it though ó with everyone talking about the ďpeakĒ arriving soon (9 days from now in Georgia according to a news article I read today), itís going to come back with a vengeance as people decide itís time to get back out into the world.

Emoney 04-11-2020 11:32 PM

I was in a virtual meeting today and was reminded one of the people on my team has terrible athsma.

No way she isnt hospitalized if she gets it. She has trouble breathing just sitting in a chair...

Idk....we may have to quarantine the unhealthy folk and let the rest of america fight it off and build antibodies....(half joking)

There really isnt a good way to do this...its messy

wims 04-11-2020 11:46 PM

There are reports suggesting that people that were sick and recovered have been reinfected again. It's possible that we won't be able to build antibodies
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKCN21T0F1

ThrowBot 04-12-2020 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brutalbrutus (Post 3573712)
They weren't way off. They were models based on spread rate and population density. People have been for the most part heeding the stay at home orders which has changed the spread rate. Like ru4 said, its better to plan for the worst and the worst didn't happen because people were being responsible. Its not a bad thing...

That's the funny thing; there are so many counterintuitive responses to this thing.

The better we do at distancing and isolation, the less severe the situation will become...and the easier it gets to fall for the "overreaction/media hype" narrative. But the fact is that a LESS severe outbreak is evidence that distancing & isolation are GOOD.

A corollary:
The better we do at flattening the curve, the longer it takes. People focus on the Y axis of the "flatten the curve" graph, and rightfully so. But look at the X axis. The best case scenario is that it takes a really long time for the virus to reach everyone. (Nobody avoids it forever.) That's why talk of re-opening the economy scares me. A slow down of new cases is evidence that we should continue shutdowns, not end them.

BogeyNoMore 04-12-2020 12:52 AM

At the risk of being a jack@ss, this thread is very clearly demonstrating whose intellect I can respect, and whose I can't.

DavidSauls 04-12-2020 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThrowBot (Post 3573829)
That's the funny thing; there are so many counterintuitive responses to this thing.

The better we do at distancing and isolation, the less severe the situation will become...and the easier it gets to fall for the "overreaction/media hype" narrative. But the fact is that a LESS severe outbreak is evidence that distancing & isolation are GOOD.

A corollary:
The better we do at flattening the curve, the longer it takes. People focus on the Y axis of the "flatten the curve" graph, and rightfully so. But look at the X axis. The best case scenario is that it takes a really long time for the virus to reach everyone. (Nobody avoids it forever.) That's why talk of re-opening the economy scares me. A slow down of new cases is evidence that we should continue shutdowns, not end them.

Absolutely. And additionally, the longer that x-axis, the better the odds of a therapeutic, or even a vaccine.

Some of the dismissers are now saying that it hasn't been as bad as predicted, as if that happened in a vacuum. It's like me saying I've changed my oil on schedule, and my engine hasn't blown up, so I wasted time and money changing my oil. Unfortunately, we can't run a test by putting a bunch of people on an isolated island, letting them "business as usual", and see if, unchecked, it's really no big deal. Though if we could, I've got some nominees for the trial.

robdeforge 04-12-2020 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twmccoy (Post 3573699)
Amazing that the media continues to overstate the amount of hospital space needed for coronavirus patients. Even in NY they have far more beds than are needed. The doom and gloom estimates in the hardest hit cities were way off.

thanks for answer but I'm looking for dave to respond so that nobody "puts words in his mouth"

paging davetherocketguy !

ohtobediscing 04-12-2020 09:11 AM

Here in MS a # of churches are holding in-church Easter services. One pastor said, "If everything else is open, why shouldn't we be?"

And the stupid just goes on and on...


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