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-   -   The Twitch of the Hips (https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137717)

bsammons 10-19-2020 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3645692)
The disc gets pulled into the power pocket area. It either has to get pushed or pulled according to physics and we know it's not pushed. But anyways...

Iím not gonna keep discussing this because even though you mention physics you have no regard for its objective laws. Iím a mechanical engineering major switched from exercise science, am currently and have in the past been in careers where I work with natural physics laws every day, and have spent years studying human body biomechanics. Have measured throws over 500 feet flat ground and have taught I couldnít tell you how many people in person. Youíre not going to change my mind because youíre not right. If you wanna continue discussing I will happily teach you the ground up physics of the throw, and objectively how each muscle works towards projecting a disc as far as possible.I think that would be helpful for everyone in the discussion, and I am always grateful for the opportunity to help someone who is looking to improve their game. Iíve responded a number of times to your posts and each time you select one minor detail you find that to you seems contradictory and ignore the rest. So Iíll happily talk over private message but Iím not going to continue putting messages on a public forum if theyíre going to continue to be ignored.

RoDeO 10-19-2020 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsammons (Post 3645694)
Iím not gonna keep discussing this because even though you mention physics you have no regard for its objective laws. Iím a mechanical engineering major switched from exercise science, am currently and have in the past been in careers where I work with natural physics laws every day, and have spent years studying human body biomechanics. Have measured throws over 500 feet flat ground and have taught I couldnít tell you how many people in person. Youíre not going to change my mind because youíre not right. If you wanna continue discussing I will happily teach you the ground up physics of the throw, and objectively how each muscle works towards projecting a disc as far as possible.I think that would be helpful for everyone in the discussion, and I am always grateful for the opportunity to help someone who is looking to improve their game. Iíve responded a number of times to your posts and each time you select one minor detail you find that to you seems contradictory and ignore the rest. So Iíll happily talk over private message but Iím not going to continue putting messages on a public forum if theyíre going to continue to be ignored.

I dont mean to nitpick but the disc is held by the hand. To get from reachback into the power pocket it has to get pulled there somehow. We could debate whether it's this muscle, or body part or action, etc, but the fact is, it being the farthest thing back in the backswing, is that something, some action, pulls it into the power pocket.

bsammons 10-19-2020 01:35 PM

If you wanna discuss that I can explain it all but I’d much rather do it over private message. I’d rather keep threads mostly on topic if possible

RoDeO 10-19-2020 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsammons (Post 3645700)
If you wanna discuss that I can explain it all but Iíd much rather do it over private message. Iíd rather keep threads mostly on topic if possible

It's part of the kinetic sequence isn't it? I don't really care exactly what the body does to get the disc into the power pocket, it's too subjective because people have different motions in getting to the power pocket, strong brace position. It's definitely a "pull" by some part of the body though to get the disc from reachback to the power pocket position.

bsammons 10-19-2020 02:02 PM

I’ll draw you a free body diagram tonight when I get home from work, it makes a good deal of sense if it’s laid out. It’s really tough to understand it as a whole, I like starting piece by piece, ground up. Everything muscle group loads the next one in the sequence, starting with the lower body all the way through the lats, tris, and forearm muscles into the disc.

RoDeO 10-19-2020 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsammons (Post 3645714)
Iíll draw you a free body diagram tonight when I get home from work, it makes a good deal of sense if itís laid out. Itís really tough to understand it as a whole, I like starting piece by piece, ground up. Everything muscle group loads the next one in the sequence, starting with the lower body all the way through the lats, tris, and forearm muscles into the disc.

Sounds good.

sidewinder22 10-19-2020 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3645667)
Well, you have your hammer throw mechanics. Notice the rather straight arm and momentum swing-

https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-19-2020/p5ACMu.gif

And you have the disc golf throw mechanics. Note the different mechanics of the hips, body, arm, etc, especially the path of the arm.-

https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-19-2020/vNH4iC.gif

I tried to throw the hammer like you do a disc and the hammer about took me out because it was swinging into my torso as I brought it into the power pocket. In Sidewinders drill, there's no bringing the hammer into the power pocket.

https://i.imgur.com/01pG2rDl.png

SaROCaM 10-19-2020 02:57 PM

Completely missed the point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3645668)
I didn't say Oman had perfect form. I said he had as perfect kinetic chain as possible.

That is also inaccurate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3645668)
He gets max potential from a rather slow methodical x step and backswing. Other players have to get crazy momentum x steps to do the same.

Explained in my previous post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3645668)
Plus, we don't really know just how far Paul Oman can really throw.

You just said he gets max potential. Contradicting yourself. Does he get max potential or not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3645668)
Lever length doesn't really account for much. Half of the top throwers are short.

You think lever length doesn't matter much?

Why is it easier to pry something with a longer bar?

Why is it easier to turn a nut/bolt with a longer wrench?

Answer: longer levers give a mechanical advantage.

If a thrower is short, they have to overcome that relative mechanical disadvantage through other means. If a thrower is taller/longer, their mechanical advantage gives them some room for error in the rest of their form. This is one reason why some people can throw far despite less than ideal form. Cleaning up that form would allow them to realize more of their potential.

RoDeO 10-19-2020 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaROCaM (Post 3645741)
Completely missed the point.



That is also inaccurate.



Explained in my previous post.



You just said he gets max potential. Contradicting yourself. Does he get max potential or not?



You think lever length doesn't matter much?

Why is it easier to pry something with a longer bar?

Why is it easier to turn a nut/bolt with a longer wrench?

Answer: longer levers give a mechanical advantage.

If a thrower is short, they have to overcome that relative mechanical disadvantage through other means. If a thrower is taller/longer, their mechanical advantage gives them some room for error in the rest of their form. This is one reason why some people can throw far despite less than ideal form. Cleaning up that form would allow them to realize more of their potential.

He gets max potential from slow deliberate motions. Others go slow too but because they don't have as good of a kinetic chain they get way less than max potential.

I guess where the rubber meets the road is how do you stack up against Paul Oman? Can you throw 500 feet from a slow x step?

RoDeO 10-19-2020 03:05 PM

BTW, I think it's ridiculous to think anyone's mechanics aren't good when they are throwing 500+ feet and competing with the best disc golfers on the planet.


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