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-   -   Nine-hole course or 18? (https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135009)

Cerealman 09-19-2019 09:40 AM

Nine-hole course or 18?
Yesterday, I stopped by Carson-Newman College in Jefferson City, Tenn., (despite the warnings about navigation, which were legit). It's listed as an 18-hole course. However, there are only nine baskets with allegedly two different tee areas. Finding ONE, let alone two different tee areas per hole, was difficult and resulted in me throwing from an area apparently near the originally intended tee area (much thanks to the DGCR photos and map).

Question: Should this be listed as an 18-hole course on DGCR? To me, it's a nine-hole course with possibly two different lengths, IF you can find them.

Similar question: Should courses with two tee areas and only one basket be counted as 18 holes or nine? (Courses like Heritage Park in Andrews, N.C., and Fayette City Park in Fayette, Mo., come to mind.)

I briefly searched the forum but didn't find a thread so please point me in the right direction if this topic has been hashed out before.

BogeyNoMore 09-19-2019 11:07 AM

I think 9 baskets with 18 tees should be listed as a niner.

Sometimes the tees don't change things up that much, sometimes they really do. But for the sake of consistency, I'm in favor of saying 9 baskets + 18 tees is a niner.

I'm also in favor of calling 9 tees + 18 baskets a niner.

My main criteria for determining how the course should be categorized, "What traffic volume can the course accommodate?" Not how unique shots/looks/layouts it provides. That should be covered in a review.

Assuming you limit cards to groups of four, the maximum & of players you can accommodate with reasonable flow/ and wait times is 36 players (9 holes x 4 players/holes = 36). More than that and you start running into longer back up and other issues. One card waiting for another card to play the alt tee/pin on that hole, regardless of whether it has a different fairway.

With 18 baskets + 18 tees, you can accommodates twice as many players as either of the above, without running into any traffic flow issues. That's the difference between 18 hole and 9 holes courses.

BogeyNoMore 09-19-2019 11:26 AM

FWIW, here are two local courses that have 9 baskets + 18 tees, that were already listed as 18 holers before I even joined DGCR. It's very common to have to wait for people playing the "other hole."

Quite a few of the alt tees do a great job of changing things up, and they even have tournaments that play "all 18 holes," but I still think they should be called nine hole courses, because it would be a mucking fess to put a foursome on every tee.

Should I ask Tim if he wants to change the way they're listed. It really shouldn't invalidate any of the reviews or affect ratings, just how they're classified on the website. They've been listed as 18's forever... but is that valid reason to "grandfather" them in as such?

Wagner Park
Starr-Jaycee Park

Cerealman 09-19-2019 11:54 AM

Thanks for weighing in, Bogey.

Sure. I'd be interested in Tim's opinion.

As I was using my DGCR app to keep score yesterday, I think I was amused by the notion that I hadn't played the whole course because holes 10-18 were left blank, even though with such horribly marked tee areas, I would have been playing the identical course on the "back nine."

Three Putt 09-19-2019 12:45 PM

Citizens Park in Belleville, IL. is like that. It's listed as 18 but looks like a niner, plays like a niner, quacks like a niner...it's a niner. :|

DavidSauls 09-19-2019 12:45 PM

I'm generally in agreement with Bogey, not so much for course capacity as variety.

If the second set of tees (or baskets) offer a distinctly different set of challenges, then maybe. I've only seen 1 or 2 courses that might fit that bill. Otherwise, it's clearly a niner.

Dcinmd 09-19-2019 02:09 PM

Bluemont is listed as a nine hole course, with 4 tee pads per hole and 17 baskets on the course.


BogeyNoMore 09-19-2019 05:48 PM

I've played Bluemont. The multiple layouts create some pretty good variety.
It's one of the best niners I've played, but I still say, "It's a niner."

And for what it's worth, the two courses I linked are listed as "18 Holes/9 Baskets."

BogeyNoMore 09-19-2019 06:05 PM

Sorry for posting again but I got timed out.

Given that the Course Info page clearly shows:
Holes / Baskets: … with separate #'s for each ... 18 / 9

Carson-Newman is listed as 18/9, as are both of the courses I linked.

Any time the Course Info shows # of holes # baskets … it should be a tip off to the reader that something's a bit different.
A quick look at the course map should confirm what the deal is.

Does anyone really think we need to dig deeper?

Three Putt 09-19-2019 11:09 PM

It's a bit slippery because the course I linked is straight up a niner with dual tees, they just named the tees 1-9 and then 10-18 so there are 18 "holes" because when you shoot to basket 1 the tees are marked 1 & 10 instead of 1 red and 1 white. It's just a labeling thing.

I think the site allows that to show as 18 because I have played some private courses that had a shared basket. The old Molex course in Lisle, IL did that. Hole 3 and 9 used the same basket, but they shot at it from totally different directions and the flow of the course made them seem like unique holes even though in the end you were putting at the same bucket. That course I considered a niner even though there were only eight baskets.

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