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scooby snack 10-10-2020 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaROCaM (Post 3642360)
Dunning-Kruger effect in action.

It doesn't matter how far you see yourself throwing in your mind.

Throwing over 370 a few times doesn't make you a 400' thrower. It doesn't really even mean you are a 370' thrower.

That's like a pitcher saying they throw 90 mph, but in reality they touched 90 measured with a questionable radar gun rather than sitting 90 measured with something as accurate as a Stalker or Jugs.

Can the pitcher sit at 90 mph?

Can the thrower consistently throw 400'?

Can they actually do it, not just in their mind?

Not this RoDeO

RoDeO 10-10-2020 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaROCaM (Post 3642360)
Dunning-Kruger effect in action.

It doesn't matter how far you see yourself throwing in your mind.

Throwing over 370 a few times doesn't make you a 400' thrower. It doesn't really even mean you are a 370' thrower.

That's like a pitcher saying they throw 90 mph, but in reality they touched 90 measured with a questionable radar gun rather than sitting 90 measured with something as accurate as a Stalker or Jugs.

Can the pitcher sit at 90 mph?

Can the thrower consistently throw 400'?

Can they actually do it, not just in their mind?

I think you missed my point. "In my mind" meaning that I see myself throwing 400 feet- having that ability right now in my mind if I could put all of the pieces together. Does that mean I'm a 400 feet guy? Absolutely not, that wasn't my point. My point was that if I could put it all together like I see in my mind, I could throw 400. There's so much into getting that perfect throw, especially just starting out. In our minds we envision how we want the throw to go, know our capabilities, etc. I have a lot of throws in practice where the line I throw on doesn't have quite the right angle, didn't get high enough, was too high, etc. Kind of like- the power is there but gotta figure out the angle and control now.
I feel my power is greater than my control and finesse right now. I have actually powered down some to work on control.

dreadlock86 10-10-2020 08:02 PM

cool story, son

RowingBoats 10-11-2020 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3642402)
I think you missed my point. "In my mind" meaning that I see myself throwing 400 feet- having that ability right now in my mind if I could put all of the pieces together. Does that mean I'm a 400 feet guy? Absolutely not, that wasn't my point. My point was that if I could put it all together like I see in my mind, I could throw 400. There's so much into getting that perfect throw, especially just starting out. In our minds we envision how we want the throw to go, know our capabilities, etc. I have a lot of throws in practice where the line I throw on doesn't have quite the right angle, didn't get high enough, was too high, etc. Kind of like- the power is there but gotta figure out the angle and control now.
I feel my power is greater than my control and finesse right now. I have actually powered down some to work on control.

Separating the concepts of power, control, and finesse, particularly in disc golf, seems utterly absurd to me. I am having good results with the complete opposite approach, and the opposite approach is almost universally used to become proficient at complex tasks.

Doing athletic movements faster and harder, more powerfully, is built upon a foundation of slow training and drills. This isn't even debatable from my perspective and experience.

RoDeO 10-11-2020 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RowingBoats (Post 3642601)
Separating the concepts of power, control, and finesse, particularly in disc golf, seems utterly absurd to me. I am having good results with the complete opposite approach, and the opposite approach is almost universally used to become proficient at complex tasks.

Doing athletic movements faster and harder, more powerfully, is built upon a foundation of slow training and drills. This isn't even debatable from my perspective and experience.

Not quite sure what you are getting at. Power, control and finesse are separate functions. One has to have power to throw max drives. With max drives however, you give up control in some degree. A max drive isn't a finesse type of shot. A finesse shot doesn't really rely on power so much but is more about shaping a line and angle for more control. Now, in the case of a beginner they are learning different aspects. Learning how to power up tee shots is very important. Not a lot of thought is put into the finesse part of the shot when learning power, meaning, we aren't trying to finesse a controlled exact placement shot when we are learning how to throw with max effort. Even for pros, on an absolute open fairway max drive they are not so much concerned with a controlled finesse shot as much as they are concerned with distance in a general location. Max shots have a great variance on where they end up. Controlled shots require more finesse and care with the sacrifice of power.

So, they are connected in some degree but in large part, power, finesse, and control are separate parts of the equation that go into a throw.

RowingBoats 10-11-2020 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3642663)
Not quite sure what you are getting at. Power, control and finesse are separate functions. One has to have power to throw max drives. With max drives however, you give up control in some degree. A max drive isn't a finesse type of shot. A finesse shot doesn't really rely on power so much but is more about shaping a line and angle for more control. Now, in the case of a beginner they are learning different aspects. Learning how to power up tee shots is very important. Not a lot of thought is put into the finesse part of the shot when learning power, meaning, we aren't trying to finesse a controlled exact placement shot when we are learning how to throw with max effort. Even for pros, on an absolute open fairway max drive they are not so much concerned with a controlled finesse shot as much as they are concerned with distance in a general location. Max shots have a great variance on where they end up. Controlled shots require more finesse and care with the sacrifice of power.

So, they are connected in some degree but in large part, power, finesse, and control are separate parts of the equation that go into a throw.

The entire idea of even attempting to throw a 'max effort' shot before you have dialed in the correct technique just doesn't make sense to me. Good luck.

NoseDownKing 10-11-2020 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RowingBoats (Post 3642681)
The entire idea of even attempting to throw a 'max effort' shot before you have dialed in the correct technique just doesn't make sense to me. Good luck.

I agree. People with great technique also have great efficiency. Meaning the effort they put into a shot gets transfered into the shot instead of just being useless. Throwing max effort with inefficient technique means, that most of that energy gets wasted and you're just exaggerating the flaws in your form.

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

RowingBoats 10-11-2020 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3642663)
Not quite sure what you are getting at. Power, control and finesse are separate functions. One has to have power to throw max drives. With max drives however, you give up control in some degree. A max drive isn't a finesse type of shot. A finesse shot doesn't really rely on power so much but is more about shaping a line and angle for more control. Now, in the case of a beginner they are learning different aspects. Learning how to power up tee shots is very important. Not a lot of thought is put into the finesse part of the shot when learning power, meaning, we aren't trying to finesse a controlled exact placement shot when we are learning how to throw with max effort. Even for pros, on an absolute open fairway max drive they are not so much concerned with a controlled finesse shot as much as they are concerned with distance in a general location. Max shots have a great variance on where they end up. Controlled shots require more finesse and care with the sacrifice of power.

So, they are connected in some degree but in large part, power, finesse, and control are separate parts of the equation that go into a throw.

Also I reject your premise that professional drives are fundamentally more inaccurate solely because of the power of the swing. You are implying that pros, when driving, have much more fluctuation in their actual technique and physical movement, and I do not believe this is the case. The variables that are outside of the swing's control are exacerbated. The disc traverses much more atmosphere, wind, etc, and the shape of drivers makes them more prone to unpredictable flight.

RoDeO 10-11-2020 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RowingBoats (Post 3642685)
Also I reject your premise that professional drives are fundamentally more inaccurate solely because of the power of the swing. You are implying that pros, when driving, have much more fluctuation in their actual technique and physical movement, and I do not believe this is the case. The variables that are outside of the swing's control are exacerbated. The disc traverses much more atmosphere, wind, etc, and the shape of drivers makes them more prone to unpredictable flight.

Yes, the disc traverses much more factors outside of a player's cobtrol on a max effort shot. But with more power also comes a decrease in control by the player throwing it. Think of it on a scale where on one end you have control and less distance and the other end you have power and distance but less control. Thus, on the control side you have the player shaping a perfect s curve around several trees, water hazards, OB and up to a basket where they want it to land in an exact spot. This kind of shot takes great planning and care and finesse. Whereas on the power side you have an open fairway, 150 feet wide and 700 feet long and they are just trying to get it generally somewhere in the fairway as far down as they can. There isn't as much care in this kind of shot. Max power creates inconsistencies in a player's mechanics, even for pros. It's why, in tournaments on these wide open fairways that players will land in different areas each day often on the same holes.

wolfhaley 10-12-2020 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreadlock86 (Post 3642472)
cool story, son

RoDeO's form ain't nothing to f*** with.

Or it's serious delerium, bill murray.

RowingBoats 10-12-2020 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3642721)
But with more power also comes a decrease in control by the player throwing it.

I think you are way, way overemphasizing this due to having a 'max effort' swing that, to me, eschews proper mechanics. I am still learning, but for me, a 'max distance' throw is just the same basic swing with all of the input variables turned up. All of my swings so far are from a standstill, I haven't even begun to play around with an x-step. From 80-300ish feet my swing just has more or less of a reachback and torso loading as the main dividing factor in my movement.

Adding uncontrolled oomph is something that occasionally happens when I lapse, and always manifests as a wild throw. I just don't understand what you even mean when you say adding power in this vague kind of way. I don't believe pros are adding this unpredictable oomph into their swing to maybe gain distance as a gamble.

Frisbee-Hanski 10-12-2020 11:57 AM

Pros are incredibly accurate also when they throw very far. This was evident for example in the recent Dynamic Discs Open. Fantastic drives by McBeth, Gibson, Lizotte etc. It is a different thing when they are throwing pure distance. Then they can for example use 360 also.

RoDeO 10-12-2020 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RowingBoats (Post 3642950)
I think you are way, way overemphasizing this due to having a 'max effort' swing that, to me, eschews proper mechanics. I am still learning, but for me, a 'max distance' throw is just the same basic swing with all of the input variables turned up. All of my swings so far are from a standstill, I haven't even begun to play around with an x-step. From 80-300ish feet my swing just has more or less of a reachback and torso loading as the main dividing factor in my movement.

Adding uncontrolled oomph is something that occasionally happens when I lapse, and always manifests as a wild throw. I just don't understand what you even mean when you say adding power in this vague kind of way. I don't believe pros are adding this unpredictable oomph into their swing to maybe gain distance as a gamble.

Maybe it's easier to relay with baseball. We have all seen it- the count is 0-2 with the tying run on third base and 2 outs in the 9th inning. Is the batter going to try to swing with max effort to crush the ball or is he more likely to choke up on the bat, scoot up to the plate and take some power off? He is more likely to choke up and take some power off. Why? Because max effort in sports actions carries with it increased chances of failure. It's easier to control and finesse when you don't have max effort involved. Now, let's reverse the situation. It's the top of the first inning with a 3-1 count. Is the player going to be persuaded more to try to hit a homerun? Yes.

It's a scale. As a player pushes more to the max effort end of the scale the increased chance of unpredictability comes into play. It's harder to control and guide muscular and skeletal ability when you are pushing it to the max. Pros, as well as amateurs, know this. The difference is of course that the more experience one gets, the more they try to control max effort equates to the more they learn and better they become. But it's still all relative to their peers generally. It's why, in top tier play, players will only take risks according to how their peers are playing. I've seen low powered control shots when the stakes are high and the scores are close. When a player gets down by a lot but still an outside chance they are more generally inclined to try new things, play with more chance for error, take bigger risks, try new lines, tee off with more power, etc. They begin to play with more max efforts, take greater risks in the hope they will get lucky and the gamble pays off.

Auto racing is the same. A driver out in front by a large margin will drive at a lower effort than max because it's easier to control. A driver behind will start taking risks, driving on that edge of chaos in hopes that the gamble pays off and he can catch up.

RoDeO 10-12-2020 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frisbee-Hanski (Post 3642971)
Pros are incredibly accurate also when they throw very far. This was evident for example in the recent Dynamic Discs Open. Fantastic drives by McBeth, Gibson, Lizotte etc. It is a different thing when they are throwing pure distance. Then they can for example use 360 also.

Incredibly accurate is relative. A 450-500+ shot by a pro on a wide open fairway is going to generally end up anywhere within a 150-200 foot diameter circle of where they are aiming. We see this all the time with big drives off the tee and players constantly putting themselves way OB or behind some large bush clear on the opposite side of the fairway from where they were aiming. So, if "incredibly accurate" means within 150-200 feet of where they were exactly aiming the majority of the time then I agree. But, incredibly accurate for a pro means more along the lines of hitting a 50 foot diameter circle at 450-500+ feet. No pro can do that with consistency.

RocHucker 10-12-2020 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3642985)
Incredibly accurate is relative. A 450-500+ shot by a pro on a wide open fairway is going to generally end up anywhere within a 150-200 foot diameter circle of where they are aiming. We see this all the time with big drives off the tee and players constantly putting themselves way OB or behind some large bush clear on the opposite side of the fairway from where they were aiming. So, if "incredibly accurate" means within 150-200 feet of where they were exactly aiming the majority of the time then I agree. But, incredibly accurate for a pro means more along the lines of hitting a 50 foot diameter circle at 450-500+ feet. No pro can do that with consistency.

The title of this thread is "Rocking the Hips".

I saw that there was activity on this thread so I logged in to check it out and hopefully get some helpful perspectives on hip engagement during the throw, which is something that I'm trying to improve in my throw. I was dismayed to find that the last page and a half has been completely irrelevant to the thread topic.

If anyone wants to dive into a topic that is not relevant to a given thread, please start a new thread.

This has become a bit of a pattern with threads that you're engaging with, Rodeo. Whatever your intentions are (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're a well-meaning person who is excited about diving into technique and happens to have opinions that differ from what is commonly accepted), please look at what the actual results are when you hijack threads to talk about your own ideas and then dig your heels in when people disagree. The result is that people can't click on a thread about "Rocking the Hips" or "One leg drill" and have any confidence that the discussion there will actually be about the hips or the one leg drill. This makes this website as a whole a less useful tool for the disc golf community, which I hope anyone would agree is a shame.

So please, keep slingin those discs and have fun disc golfing, but before replying to a thread on here please ask yourself whether or not your post is relevant to the thread. If a thread is specifically about what type of feeling or biomechanical action facilitates more efficient power transfer from the hips, then advocating "max effort, muscle training, etc.", is not relevant, nor is debating the trade-offs between power and control. Feel free to debate these things in a thread where they are relevant, or start a new thread, but please respect people who want to be able to learn about the topic that a given thread was created to discuss.

RoDeO 10-12-2020 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocHucker (Post 3643034)
The title of this thread is "Rocking the Hips".

I saw that there was activity on this thread so I logged in to check it out and hopefully get some helpful perspectives on hip engagement during the throw, which is something that I'm trying to improve in my throw. I was dismayed to find that the last page and a half has been completely irrelevant to the thread topic.

If anyone wants to dive into a topic that is not relevant to a given thread, please start a new thread.

This has become a bit of a pattern with threads that you're engaging with, Rodeo. Whatever your intentions are (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're a well-meaning person who is excited about diving into technique and happens to have opinions that differ from what is commonly accepted), please look at what the actual results are when you hijack threads to talk about your own ideas and then dig your heels in when people disagree. The result is that people can't click on a thread about "Rocking the Hips" or "One leg drill" and have any confidence that the discussion there will actually be about the hips or the one leg drill. This makes this website as a whole a less useful tool for the disc golf community, which I hope anyone would agree is a shame.

So please, keep slingin those discs and have fun disc golfing, but before replying to a thread on here please ask yourself whether or not your post is relevant to the thread. If a thread is specifically about what type of feeling or biomechanical action facilitates more efficient power transfer from the hips, then advocating "max effort, muscle training, etc.", is not relevant, nor is debating the trade-offs between power and control. Feel free to debate these things in a thread where they are relevant, or start a new thread, but please respect people who want to be able to learn about the topic that a given thread was created to discuss.

It was a side topic that Rowingboats started. It was sidetracked after I said I was powering down so that I could work on control. I think people just want to debate anything I say. If I say black, they argue for white...

But I agree that it should stay on topic. I think I may start a power vs. control thread, sounds interesting.

sidewinder22 10-13-2020 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3641501)
I am simply advocating what Paul and Nate were teaching in the video I posted. GG is an advocate for increasing hip rotation speed. He has a video on distance tips and his #1 tip is to work on faster hip rotation.

The importance of rotating powerfully is key to distance. Knowing how and when that rotation begins is also key. Knowing the difference between strongarming and whipping the arm by the body is also key.

You cannot rotate the hips and use the body if you have the wrong mindset. The belief that rotation begins at brace is wrong. The belief that sole lateral shift creates rotation is also wrong. The danger or problem with teaching these philosophies is that it doesnt promote proper hip and core rotation. Im advocating for the mindset of the hips already starting to rotate coming into brace. At that moment you should thus feel like the core is wound up a bit at which time it can unwind or rotate powerfully. If you are at brace moment (complete weight shift) and feel no wound up energy from the twisting of the hips against the torso you are doing it wrong and will not be able to properly whip the disc through.

GG doesn't mention hip rotation. He says he rocks the hips back and whips them forward.

You are talking about your mindset and philosophy and feel and timing which is different than most others that throw further than you.

Here PP is demonstrating and talking about the hip twitch as a powerful lateral move. Belief can be different than reality, but that doesn't necessarily make it wrong as a swing thought or inhibit proper rotation. Notice how she starts rotating more as she lags the arm back, so she is in fact rotating, unlike you said before, and she has more rotational momentum with the backswing or leaving the arm back behind the lateral drive off the rear leg. She isn't really trying to rotate more/faster, she just has more rotational momentum from the backswing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lvXcIcNGgs&t=2m30s
https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-13-2020/yTcLIK.gif

timothy42b 10-13-2020 08:53 AM

Where is that drill? I never could find it.

RoDeO 10-13-2020 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidewinder22 (Post 3643254)
GG doesn't mention hip rotation. He says he rocks the hips back and whips them forward.

You are talking about your mindset and philosophy and feel and timing which is different than most others that throw further than you.

Here PP is demonstrating and talking about the hip twitch as a powerful lateral move. Belief can be different than reality, but that doesn't necessarily make it wrong as a swing thought or inhibit proper rotation. Notice how she starts rotating more as she lags the arm back, so she is in fact rotating, unlike you said before, and she has more rotational momentum with the backswing or leaving the arm back behind the lateral drive off the rear leg. She isn't really trying to rotate more/faster, she just has more rotational momentum from the backswing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lvXcIcNGgs&t=2m30s
https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-13-2020/yTcLIK.gif

If one is thinking a powerful lateral move and consequently are beginning hip rotation as part of that then great. The problem is if a person is doing drills and trying to laterally shift with no rotation onto the front foot and then trying to rotate once their weight has shifted. If all your weight has shifted off the back leg and onto the front leg and you haven't initiated hip rotation then it's not possible for it to happen at that point. Strongarming then becomes the culprit outcome.

I'm just making an observation about the triggers in the sequence. When and where exactly does the trigger occur that initiates hip rotation? It is initiated as the lead leg is coming into brace but before the brace actually occurs. If we understand that then it is easier to understand how important the loading of a partially rotated hip is coming into brace. That load into brace becomes even more as the brace develops which then power the rotation of the torso and shoulders. It's a twisting rubber band effect of sorts that powerfully create the torque needed to rotate the upper body and turn that powerful rotational Force into throwing the disc. One must feel that twist happening from their hips up into their shoulders in a sequence to throw correctly. Otherwise it's just all arming and most beginners are guilty of that and can't figure out how to overcome that issue. I was guilty too as a RHBH player before I switched to LHBH. Most new players try to throw the disc with their arm, just like you do with your Wal-Mart frisbee.

If you don't mind me asking- were you guilty too of strongarming when you very first started? Also, just curious, how ling was it from the time you first started to where you could throw 350 feet the correct way (not strongarming)?

RandyC 10-13-2020 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3643334)
If one is thinking a powerful lateral move and consequently are beginning hip rotation as part of that then great. The problem is if a person is doing drills and trying to laterally shift with no rotation onto the front foot and then trying to rotate once their weight has shifted. If all your weight has shifted off the back leg and onto the front leg and you haven't initiated hip rotation then it's not possible for it to happen at that point. Strongarming then becomes the culprit outcome.

I'm just making an observation about the triggers in the sequence. When and where exactly does the trigger occur that initiates hip rotation? It is initiated as the lead leg is coming into brace but before the brace actually occurs. If we understand that then it is easier to understand how important the loading of a partially rotated hip is coming into brace. That load into brace becomes even more as the brace develops which then power the rotation of the torso and shoulders. It's a twisting rubber band effect of sorts that powerfully create the torque needed to rotate the upper body and turn that powerful rotational Force into throwing the disc. One must feel that twist happening from their hips up into their shoulders in a sequence to throw correctly. Otherwise it's just all arming and most beginners are guilty of that and can't figure out how to overcome that issue. I was guilty too as a RHBH player before I switched to LHBH. Most new players try to throw the disc with their arm, just like you do with your Wal-Mart frisbee.

If you don't mind me asking- were you guilty too of strongarming when you very first started? Also, just curious, how ling was it from the time you first started to where you could throw 350 feet the correct way (not strongarming)?

I am kinda curious what you define as strongarming?

RoDeO 10-13-2020 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyC (Post 3643391)
I am kinda curious what you define as strongarming?

Does it feel like your hips, torso, back, etc, is pulling and whipping your arm through? If so then not strongarming.

RoDeO 10-13-2020 07:10 PM

Just made a GIF of Paul Omans drive. I think it perfectly does showcase the correct kinetic motion sequence.
https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-13-2020/JmuDU2.gif

RoDeO 10-13-2020 07:16 PM

https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-13-2020/Z_iiYP.gif

MiketheGoalie 10-13-2020 07:37 PM

So then what is strongarming?

oldmandiscer 10-13-2020 08:01 PM

I wouldn't copy Nates backhand form. It's not very good (for a pro).

sidewinder22 10-13-2020 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3643334)
If you don't mind me asking- were you guilty too of strongarming when you very first started? Also, just curious, how ling was it from the time you first started to where you could throw 350 feet the correct way (not strongarming)?

Do you have video of your RHBH, so we can see what you are talking about? I don't know why you think 350' dictates strong arming or not? I see it as various gradations of strong arming.

Yes, I was strong arming when I first started, never said I wasn't. However you can see my hips rotating before "strong brace moment" in 2009, broke leg in May 2010. I had to slow down and delay rotation and counter-rotate my whole body more to fix it. Hard to say how long it took to throw 350' because to re-engineer my form I threw nothing but putters for about 2 months, no drivers whatsoever(no high speed drivers for close to a year). IIRC I went from about 200' to effortless 280' with putters in that 2 month time, meanwhile I was maxing like 250' before with a Boss and throwing as hard as possible. IMO driver distance is terrible way to gauge power or form, lot of different ways you can throw a driver, but if you can throw a Comet 300', that tells me you have decent form.


sidewinder22 10-13-2020 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3643545)
Just copied his reachback and unwind and I was getting 30-40 feet extra distance on my drives. Not sure how far I could of thrown it without wind but did get one out to almost 350 feet into a 25mph headwind. I could totally feel more power in my throw.

So changing your mechanics resulted in instant distance, while building explosive muscle took months. :rolleyes:

RoDeO 10-13-2020 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidewinder22 (Post 3643603)
So changing your mechanics resulted in instant distance, while building explosive muscle took months. :rolleyes:

Same mechanics pretty much, just reaching back and around further.

RoDeO 10-13-2020 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidewinder22 (Post 3643595)
Do you have video of your RHBH, so we can see what you are talking about? I don't know why you think 350' dictates strong arming or not? I see it as various gradations of strong arming.

Yes, I was strong arming when I first started, never said I wasn't. However you can see my hips rotating before "strong brace moment" in 2009, broke leg in May 2010. I had to slow down and delay rotation and counter-rotate my whole body more to fix it. Hard to say how long it took to throw 350' because to re-engineer my form I threw nothing but putters for about 2 months, no drivers whatsoever(no high speed drivers for close to a year). IIRC I went from about 200' to effortless 280' with putters in that 2 month time, meanwhile I was maxing like 250' before with a Boss and throwing as hard as possible. IMO driver distance is terrible way to gauge power or form, lot of different ways you can throw a driver, but if you can throw a Comet 300', that tells me you have decent form.


I ask because you always seem to be critical of my distance in giving advice. I've been throwing LHBH 3 and 1/2 months. I think my distance now is at least on par with others who learn the right way.

sidewinder22 10-13-2020 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3643606)
Same mechanics pretty much, just reaching back and around further.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/5167...itemid=5013006

seedlings 10-13-2020 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3643573)

Edit: notice the plant. With bent knee. Then hips and pull.

sidewinder22 10-13-2020 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3643610)
I ask because you always seem to be critical of my distance in giving advice. I've been throwing LHBH 3 and 1/2 months. I think my distance now is at least on par with others who learn the right way.

According yourself, your baseball background made that transition natural for you, so maybe you have been able to skip a step in learning the right way?

Learning BH was anything but natural for me. FH on the other hand was totally natural for me.

RoDeO 10-13-2020 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidewinder22 (Post 3643623)
According yourself, your baseball background made that transition natural for you, so maybe you have been able to skip a step in learning the right way?

Learning BH was anything but natural for me. FH on the other hand was totally natural for me.

Injuring my right arm was the best blessing. It allowed me to start over and fast track. It allowed me to feel the difference between strongarming and thinking I wasnt right handed to playing left handed and whipping it through naturally from the beginning.

I think my advancement in distance for how long I have been playing is above average because I understand the true difference of strongarming and whipping the arm. If I was still playing RHBH I know I wouldn't be throwing as far or easy because it's hard to go from strongarming to not with the same arm. I have attempted to relearn RHBH now that my arm is all healed up but I can't stop trying to strong arm it. The dominant arm just wants to muscle the disc. I see this same problem with lots of others on these forums, even some who have been playing for over 5 years and can't figure out how to get more distance.

RoDeO 10-13-2020 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seedlings (Post 3643619)
Edit: notice the plant. With bent knee. Then hips and pull.

Hips actually start to turn (that "twitch") right before strong brace.

RandyC 10-14-2020 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiketheGoalie (Post 3643581)
So then what is strongarming?

I would define strongarming a throw where your shoulders do not turn or you fake your turn by going backwards.

sidewinder22 10-14-2020 02:58 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3643570)
Just made a GIF of Paul Omans drive. I think it perfectly does showcase the correct kinetic motion sequence.
https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-13-2020/JmuDU2.gif

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3643573)

I wouldn't call it perfect, he's making a longer slower linear move off the rear leg/heel(not engaging the calf/ankle/foot into the kinetic chain) and dragging into super wide stance which slows rotation down. He is so tall and lanky which gives him natural mechanical leverage that he can throw really far with not the most efficient mechanics. At least he isn't squishing the bug. Note how he pushes his CoG upward(fighting gravity) going into the plant and the shoulders start tipping over the hips.

Avery on the other hand makes a much quicker compacter lateral pressure shift dropping lower into narrower upright stance which speeds up rotation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIQjrxfIm_Q&t=5m
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvvF6eW-by8#t=1m23s

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...1&d=1602652172

Discette 10-14-2020 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidewinder22 (Post 3643700)



I notice he also has a knee brace. Which could be a result of throwing like this.

RoDeO 10-14-2020 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidewinder22 (Post 3643700)
I wouldn't call it perfect, he's making a longer slower linear move off the rear leg/heel(not engaging the calf/ankle/foot into the kinetic chain) and dragging into super wide stance which slows rotation down. He is so tall and lanky which gives him natural mechanical leverage that he can throw really far with not the most efficient mechanics. At least he isn't squishing the bug. Note how he pushes his CoG upward(fighting gravity) going into the plant and the shoulders start tipping over the hips.

Avery on the other hand makes a much quicker compacter lateral pressure shift dropping lower into narrower upright stance which speeds up rotation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIQjrxfIm_Q&t=5m
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvvF6eW-by8#t=1m23s

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...1&d=1602652172

Just curious, how far do you throw? Can you dial up 500+ feet on demand whenever you need it?

RoDeO 10-14-2020 04:12 PM

Strongarming, quite simply, is when it feels like the arm is doing all the work. If one doesn't feel like they are using their hips and torso to throw the disc, it's highly probable they are strongarming it. You can definitely tell when you aren't strongarming because you can feel the power in your hips and torso propelling the disc.

Timoteo 10-14-2020 06:16 PM

Just my take but I think the “correct” way to throw is going to feel a lot different to different players since we all have different muscle memory. I know when I first started I kept hearing that power comes from the hips. So I did what most non-athletic people do when I hear that: I turned my hips as hard as I could with no balance, without maintaining posture, without maintaining any depth in the hips, all while leaving the arm behind and early releasing everything into oblivion. I developed a muscle memory for firing my hips too early and too quickly. It wasn’t until I started focusing on having fast hands or, as Tiger put it, letting my hands “win the race” that I started throwing more powerfully/accurately. It’s not that my hands actually fire first, but that’s what it feels like, or felt like when I first made the change.


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