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-   -   The Twitch of the Hips (https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137717)

sidewinder22 10-22-2020 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3646949)
I wasn't resisting no rotation. It's impossible to resist something that isn't present. I intentionally didn't try to initiate hip rotation in my shift to see if coming into the brace were to cause a rotation. None was present at all. I did it again and same result

https://youtu.be/ZwaFNtjvOtE

Still rotating.

RoDeO 10-22-2020 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidewinder22 (Post 3646950)
Still rotating.

Umm....no.

RoDeO 10-22-2020 02:22 AM

Funny that I show video of disc golfers actually rotating and you say no rotation and you see video of me with no rotation and say I'm rotating. That's irony.

SaROCaM 10-22-2020 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3646936)
The debate is whether the hips rotate before or after brace isnt it? Just because the toe or part of the foot is touching ground doesn't mean they are bracing. There is a transition phase of weight going from rear to front and it is smooth and dynamic. The hips need to be rotating into strong brace. The power acceleration phase doesn't happen until that strong brace because your core muscles need something to brace against. At that moment where strong brace occurs the disc should either be in the power pocket position or almost in that position from reachback. Also at that moment you should have maximum hip to shoulder separation angles. That is the load that powerfully unwind the upper body or pulls it through into release. If you didn't start turning the hios until strong brace there is or can be no lag which provides the necessary power. Why? Because the hips continue to rotate all the way through weight transition. If one were to delay that until strong brace there is no lag time because the upper body starts to turn open at that point.

It isn't clear that you know what bracing is. Anyone wanna sort this out?

From what I have seen, your theory of sequencing is supported by your opinion and subjective conclusions from observations you made.

The other theory is supported by data from biomechanics researchers and technology that measures body positions and movement in real time. Also people who either throw 500'+ and/or have coached people to throw better and/or have relevant experience/knowledge seem to disagree regularly with what you say.

If you can point to research, electronic measurement, and/or some other independent sources to support your position, that would be helpful.

I'm not 100% saying that you are wrong, just that the evidence is overwhelmingly against you.

RandyC 10-22-2020 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3646954)
Funny that I show video of disc golfers actually rotating and you say no rotation and you see video of me with no rotation and say I'm rotating. That's irony.

I donīt think anyone has said that there is no rotation in your hips. It is a dynamic movement. What has been said is that you do not rotate from your rear leg it is a completely different animal. You are advocating rotation of the rear leg as a power source and that is not how you throw nor create power. The rotator muscles in your hip are small and weak compared to abduction adduction which uses glutes and hamstrings.

NoseDownKing 10-22-2020 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3646954)
Funny that I show video of disc golfers actually rotating and you say no rotation and you see video of me with no rotation and say I'm rotating. That's irony.

When did he say that discgolfers don't rotate? Have you listened to anything in the past month I swear to god

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RoDeO 10-22-2020 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaROCaM (Post 3646956)
It isn't clear that you know what bracing is. Anyone wanna sort this out?

From what I have seen, your theory of sequencing is supported by your opinion and subjective conclusions from observations you made.

The other theory is supported by data from biomechanics researchers and technology that measures body positions and movement in real time. Also people who either throw 500'+ and/or have coached people to throw better and/or have relevant experience/knowledge seem to disagree regularly with what you say.

If you can point to research, electronic measurement, and/or some other independent sources to support your position, that would be helpful.

I'm not 100% saying that you are wrong, just that the evidence is overwhelmingly against you.

Bracing is when your lead foot braces your weight. There is a strong brace moment when all of your weight has maximum pressure under your foot. Some players have a rather abrupt strong brace like Paige Pierce where you see more pressure and leg straightening and thus less lateral weight follow through and others more smooth and and less abrupt where there is less pressure and a bent leg and more lateral weight follow through like Paul Mcbeth.

Look at the video evidence. Video don't lie. I wished I knew how to capture a stillframe from video be cause I could then post pictures of top pros all in that same position of when their foot braces in that strong brace (where all the weight is firmly on the lead leg) and their hips have all substantially turned towards open and the shoulders are still facing rearward.

RoDeO 10-22-2020 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyC (Post 3646962)
I donīt think anyone has said that there is no rotation in your hips. It is a dynamic movement. What has been said is that you do not rotate from your rear leg it is a completely different animal. You are advocating rotation of the rear leg as a power source and that is not how you throw nor create power. The rotator muscles in your hip are small and weak compared to abduction adduction which uses glutes and hamstrings.

Whichever muscle groups are involved is a topic for discussion on its own. The important part is that the rotation of the hips begin just before the brace. This is important because if a player is led to believe that no rotation at all happens until brace then they have troubles learning how to rotate and get the hips involved and the right sequencing invloved. This was simply proven by your one leg throw. In that throw your hip never leads rotation like it should. It's also the reason why you can't balance solely on your front leg and swing a bat with power. The hip rotation is what leads the rotation and it must be initiated before the weight shift occurs.

bsammons 10-22-2020 09:39 AM

Rodeo, I’m gonna put this as politely as I can.

You’re incorrect in your assessment of the throw.
I posted the free body diagram and written up assessment of the throw and it was completely ignored.
Nobody is “staying with you”, nobody is waiting to see your idea or drill that’s going to radically change perspectives of the throw.
We aren’t being arrogant, we aren’t being snobby. Any time we’re presented with information and evidence that points contrary to our beliefs we are the first to embrace it.
If you want to discuss the throw I will happily direct message you and am open to hearing every bit of the theory you have of biomechanics. In fact I’ll even FaceTime you if you so like. But please, for the sake of this entire sub forum. Look at the evidence and look at the physics and try to reason with the countless people who have selflessly tried to point you in the right direction.
-bsammons

SaROCaM 10-22-2020 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3647009)
Bracing is when your lead foot braces your weight. There is a strong brace moment when all of your weight has maximum pressure under your foot. Some players have a rather abrupt strong brace like Paige Pierce where you see more pressure and leg straightening and thus less lateral weight follow through and others more smooth and and less abrupt where there is less pressure and a bent leg and more lateral weight follow through like Paul Mcbeth.

Look at the video evidence. Video don't lie. I wished I knew how to capture a stillframe from video be cause I could then post pictures of top pros all in that same position of when their foot braces in that strong brace (where all the weight is firmly on the lead leg) and their hips have all substantially turned towards open and the shoulders are still facing rearward.

So you're saying bracing has to do with weight? I was under the impression that bracing has to do with momentum. Anyone else care to speak to this?

Also I still think that "strong brace" is a strange construct. You hear people say "brace yourself," not "strong brace yourself." You hear "brace for impact," not "strong brace for impact."

Not sure a still frame would help since it isn't clear whether you were able to make a GIF that stopped at the correct point.


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