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DiscyBusiness 01-27-2022 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agarner14 (Post 3785775)
How many people are going to pick up these new re-branded DM originals from Innova?

If they put out a Halo FD I will buy that, yes. I will also buy the new Discmania FD whenever it's available.

robdeforge 01-27-2022 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian.w (Post 3785821)
Holy **** stop looking at the measurements on the pdga site and making conclusions. They are always inaccurate.
iT’s NoT aN fD tHe MeAsUrEmEnTs ArE dIfFeRrEnT. hAiLeY mUsT bE wRoNg

"It's possible that Hailey is not correct." =/= "hAiLeY mUsT bE wRoNg"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyzer Ale (Post 3785815)
They are literally making it her tour series disc. The PDGA measurements are notoriously innacurate.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...&postcount=165

They are making it her tour series disc, according to Hailey right? or has somebody else come out and confirmed that?

I know PDGA measurements are notoriously inaccurate. I should have added that to my original post. I'm just pointing out possibilities. It is also entirely possible, and more likely than not, that it is a halo FD. but as far as I know so far the only confirmation we have is from Hailey

discerdoo 01-27-2022 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agarner14 (Post 3785775)
How many people are going to pick up these new re-branded DM originals from Innova?

Already have one of each but I'm a horrible person. Probably have 20 of each with the DM brand.

hujatsu 01-28-2022 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyzer Ale (Post 3785815)
The PDGA measurements are notoriously innacurate.

I refuse to believe that the actual measurements are inaccurate to a notorious extent as it is not rocket science to operate a caliper. I am way more inclined to believe that the discs sent to reapproval, or the discs you measure at home, are indeed very different from the discs sent to PDGA. It is not that uncommon to find visibly different discs within the same run, let alone across different runs.

I'm not entirely sure if your comment implied (unjustly) PDGA's incompetence in measuring things or if you referred to run-to-run variation in disc dimensions but if it was the latter, then feel free to ignore this reply :o

DiscT 01-28-2022 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agarner14 (Post 3785775)
First of all DM - I'm stoked for the Iron Samurai 3, so thanks for brightening up my week.

It looks like Innova is putting out what I assume is another DM originals mold in the "Hawkeye" that recently got PDGA approval. So that is now 3 molds - the FD, PD, and what might be an FD2 from Innova in a matter of 6-8 weeks. What is the general thought on this from Discmania throwers? I cannot help but feel slightly perturbed at the childish behavior as in - first undercutting DMs supply knowing full well that Innova owned the molds and then turning around to re-sell the molds on their own. I get that they are good molds and I am half tempted to try them out, but honestly don't really feel like giving my money to Innova based not only on their treatment of their players (based on reports from Kona, Ricky, etc) but also how they totally screwed DM over.

How many people are going to pick up these new re-branded DM originals from Innova?


I agree. We don’t know the details of how all of this went down, but Innova’s move seems morally bogus but business brilliant. They are The Godfather company in this game, and it sucks that it’s so hard to compete with them.

Because of this, I wish DM could move 3X faster to be more competitive. Stating the obvious, they could sell a lot more if they had a lot more available. Hopefully 2022 can see exponential growth for them so they can reclaim their place in the market, but they can’t do that with standard color (i.e. no swirl/non-aesthetic) plastics, subpar stamps, minimal and sporadic restocks, disappointing mystery boxes, dissatisfied releases, high prices, and low durability (mainly d-line flex 2). They’re reinventing, we all get that, but my hope for this company is not just to crawl back to their old place but to claim a newer, higher position in the pecking order. DM has what it takes and deserves to look and operate like Discraft, so my hope is they/we can get there. 5 year plan?

Discmania_Support 01-28-2022 11:31 AM

Discmania Support Reply
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscT (Post 3785202)
This got me wondering…DM is low on a LOT of things (again), but we know they’re machines are not up and running at 100% capacity. Do you think they’re saving/shipping discs for the biggest restock in the history of disc golf or do you think this ebb and flow will be how they have to restock since they have to split and ship their inventory overseas?

Leading to my ultimate question: do you think we will see a stateside manufacturing site for DM in the future (likely in Colorado), and do you think that would help with the problem?

The entirety of 2021 we took things via air, a decision that many companies weren't willing to take because it's outrageously expensive. 2022 will bring somewhat regular container shipments and higher volume restocks in turn. First one should arrive in a couple weeks. More urgent disc releases such as signature ones will likely still be taken via air since they are more time sensitive. Lots of improvements to build on this year for sure :) Q1 is going to be a banger

Skervoy 01-28-2022 03:00 PM

Would be cool if there comes a day when you could buy swirly s-line cloud breaker online without having either anxiety about the 10x retail price or smashing the computer buttons to get through checkout.....

Hopefully it is the bottom now and the future will be better

seedlings 01-28-2022 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skervoy (Post 3786092)
Would be cool if there comes a day when you could buy swirly s-line cloud breaker online without having either anxiety about the 10x retail price or smashing the computer buttons to get through checkout.....

Hopefully it is the bottom now and the future will be better

Latitude 64 next door has it figured out pretty well. Discmania will catch up.

BTW, is that P2 machine still pumping out P2s until demand is met, or is it put to different work?

Hyzer Ale 01-28-2022 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hujatsu (Post 3785974)
I refuse to believe that the actual measurements are inaccurate to a notorious extent as it is not rocket science to operate a caliper. I am way more inclined to believe that the discs sent to reapproval, or the discs you measure at home, are indeed very different from the discs sent to PDGA. It is not that uncommon to find visibly different discs within the same run, let alone across different runs.

I'm not entirely sure if your comment implied (unjustly) PDGA's incompetence in measuring things or if you referred to run-to-run variation in disc dimensions but if it was the latter, then feel free to ignore this reply :o

My comment was more to say that the PDGA measurements are not a good source of proof for a mold. It could easily be that the measurements are 100% accurate, but if I give you 5 destroyers from 5 different runs you are not going to see the same measurements. There is enough variablity disc to disc to explain the differences in measurements between the original FD, the fairway disc and the hawkeye. It was not meant to be an attack on the PDGA, although I see how it came off that way.

Emoney 01-31-2022 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emoney (Post 3773140)
The big question for collectors will be...will this be the only release of the CB3 OR will they be produced in 2022 as well?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discmania_Support (Post 3773446)
Cloud Breaker will be made again as another release later on but the CB3 will have just this one release

Hmmmmm? :/

Get your Cloudbreaker 3 on Feb 3rd!
Free bump/promo for discmania

Discmania_Support 02-01-2022 11:07 AM

Discmania Support Reply
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Emoney (Post 3786871)
Hmmmmm? :/

Get your Cloudbreaker 3 on Feb 3rd!
Free bump/promo for discmania

Yep both are still true :). What you'll see restocked on the 3rd is still part of the batch that should have been sold for release but was delayed for a long time. There will still be a 2022 release to come later in the year

burger0014 02-03-2022 09:55 PM

when will Rainmakers be available for purchase?

Agarner14 02-04-2022 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burger0014 (Post 3787848)
when will Rainmakers be available for purchase?

Not only that, but how about that production update??? Tournament season is starting soon, I'd be awesome to know when to expect the MD1 and FD out in production.

Discmania_Support 02-04-2022 10:23 AM

Discmania Support Reply
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Agarner14 (Post 3787859)
Not only that, but how about that production update??? Tournament season is starting soon, I'd be awesome to know when to expect the MD1 and FD out in production.

We'll have some more news for you quite soon. It's possible that there won't be a full on update right now but you'll have an answer to at least one of those :).

Agarner14 02-06-2022 12:37 AM

Discmania 2022 Wish List Top 3
 
While we wait for the DM production update, I started thinking about what would my top three wish list items for 2022 be. I thought it might make for an interesting conversation, so what the top three wish list items you want to see from DM this year? (The Sky is the limit - new molds, plastics, stamps, special editions, etc)

My Top 3:
1. Premium plastic availability for the evolution line putt and approach discs (Tactic and Logic specifically)
2. S-Line Original runs and not just special editions
3. Higher speed understable driver - Like an Essance in a 10 or 11 speed (10/6/-2/2)?

Flick Maniac 02-06-2022 05:54 AM

3. for this slot a particular Astronaut should work. I cant remember the color coding but one of the more understable ones might work

Yes, stock S-line runs please.

seedlings 02-06-2022 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agarner14 (Post 3788203)
While we wait for the DM production update, I started thinking about what would my top three wish list items for 2022 be. I thought it might make for an interesting conversation, so what the top three wish list items you want to see from DM this year? (The Sky is the limit - new molds, plastics, stamps, special editions, etc)

My Top 3:
1. Premium plastic availability for the evolution line putt and approach discs (Tactic and Logic specifically)
2. S-Line Original runs and not just special editions
3. Higher speed understable driver - Like an Essance in a 10 or 11 speed (10/6/-2/2)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flick Maniac (Post 3788216)
3. for this slot a particular Astronaut should work. I cant remember the color coding but one of the more understable ones might work

Yes, stock S-line runs please.

The Astronaut 100% fits this slot.

fishballer06 02-08-2022 04:59 PM

I feel like a lot of people are not a fan of the Active line plastics (myself included). A 10 speed Essence-type driver in Swedish/Italian plastic would be a huge hit.

seedlings 02-08-2022 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishballer06 (Post 3788825)
I feel like a lot of people are not a fan of the Active line plastics (myself included). A 10 speed Essence-type driver in Swedish/Italian plastic would be a huge hit.

The Mentor is basically an 11 speed Essence.

Mamba Maniac 02-08-2022 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flick Maniac (Post 3788216)
3. for this slot a particular Astronaut should work. I cant remember the color coding but one of the more understable ones might work

Yes, stock S-line runs please.

The Astronaut has a 23mm rim which is a huge jump up from the Essence. It's rated as 12 6 -4 1. Having said that the high turn does make it a little forgiving for less powerful throwers but it flies in a huge S curve as opposed to the Essence's very straight flight. I love the Essence for that. The biggest problem with the new plastics is the inability to make discs that weigh much less than 170g. Also the Active line is transparent which makes it difficult to find your discs.

I agree, please bring back S-Line!

seedlings 02-08-2022 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mamba Maniac (Post 3788897)
The Astronaut has a 23mm rim which is a huge jump up from the Essence. It's rated as 12 6 -4 1. Having said that the high turn does make it a little forgiving for less powerful throwers but it flies in a huge S curve as opposed to the Essence's very straight flight. I love the Essence for that. The biggest problem with the new plastics is the inability to make discs that weigh much less than 170g. Also the Active line is transparent which makes it difficult to find your discs.

I agree, please bring back S-Line!

Once you get higher than the Essence’s 8 speed, every disc fades because of the wider rim. In order to get a straight line flight from a higher speed disc, it has to be an understable disc on hyzer flip. All the under stability is used to flip the disc up (and probably over slightly) to reduce fade. The Astronaut does this, the Mentor does this. There’s still more fade than the Essence because of rim width. IMO Essence is a special disc. I have a 165g that is flippier than a 174g. Both fight back at the end, but the 174 just goes straight where the 165 goes up, over, and glides in turn first.

DiscT 02-09-2022 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seedlings (Post 3788914)
Once you get higher than the Essence’s 8 speed, every disc fades because of the wider rim. In order to get a straight line flight from a higher speed disc, it has to be an understable disc on hyzer flip. All the under stability is used to flip the disc up (and probably over slightly) to reduce fade. The Astronaut does this, the Mentor does this. There’s still more fade than the Essence because of rim width. IMO Essence is a special disc. I have a 165g that is flippier than a 174g. Both fight back at the end, but the 174 just goes straight where the 165 goes up, over, and glides in turn first.

When you say the Essence is a “special disc,” do you mean more utility or more rare as in a manufacturer’s lineup of under stable fairways? Or something else entirely? I was curious about that comment. I just got my first Essence in a MB so this might help me experiment with it and see what role it plays in my bag. Thanks!

seedlings 02-09-2022 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscT (Post 3788939)
When you say the Essence is a “special disc,” do you mean more utility or more rare as in a manufacturer’s lineup of under stable fairways? Or something else entirely? I was curious about that comment. I just got my first Essence in a MB so this might help me experiment with it and see what role it plays in my bag. Thanks!

I mean there isn’t another disc that flies like the Essence. It’s not a Leopard3, not an FD, not a Saint or Underworld. Unique.

Mamba Maniac 02-09-2022 09:12 AM

Wish I could get my hands on a 165g Essence! I haven't seen one below 170g in ages.

seedlings 02-09-2022 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mamba Maniac (Post 3788949)
Wish I could get my hands on a 165g Essence! I haven't seen one below 170g in ages.

DiscBaron still has some blue 166g. That’s where I got mine. I had a 10% coupon though. Shipping is included with the higher price.
https://www.discbaron.com/Discmania-.../db1065182.htm

klodkrawler05 02-09-2022 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mamba Maniac (Post 3788949)
Wish I could get my hands on a 165g Essence! I haven't seen one below 170g in ages.

FWIW a local shop has a few listed in the 166-168g range (this was the absolute lightest I saw at 166.7g)
https://www.discbaron.com/Discmania-.../db1065184.htm

The discmania website has some of the Nate Perkins essence left in the 165-169 range also, but those fly a tick more stable than your typical Neo essence.

Flick Maniac 02-09-2022 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seedlings (Post 3788879)
The Mentor is basically an 11 speed Essence.

YMMV but what I have thrown and heard people say is not that at all. More like a 11 speed Firebird, at least in Active Premium they are notoriously overstable and not matching the flight numbers. This may or may not apply more to the first run of premium Mentors though.

Agarner14 02-09-2022 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flick Maniac (Post 3788958)
YMMV but what I have thrown and heard people say is not that at all. More like a 11 speed Firebird, at least in Active Premium they are notoriously overstable and not matching the flight numbers. This may or may not apply more to the first run of premium Mentors though.

I had never thrown either the Astronaut or the Mentor until the Black Mystery Box came out. The astronaut might be working its way into my bag, I do think my arm speed is a little lacking to really utilize it fully. The Mentor is flying very overstable for me, maybe it is just my disc, but I'm not really digging it at all. The active premium plastic is also not super to my liking. Seems quite stiff.

I think the 10 speed slot is a sweet spot for those arms where the 7/8 speed fairway drivers are a little too slow and flippy. I have an ESP scorch that is filling this slot right now, but I'd love to have something in the Neo plastic.

Jolt 02-11-2022 11:54 AM

Eagle said in his "Iron Samurai 3 video" that the pink is flat and the blue is domey. . but he did not say anything about what the flat vs dome did for the flight. . do the fly the same?

seedlings 02-11-2022 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolt (Post 3789465)
Eagle said in his "Iron Samurai 3 video" that the pink is flat and the blue is domey. . but he did not say anything about what the flat vs dome did for the flight. . do the fly the same?

Dome will be more stable with a larger cross section. Possibly also more glide.

DiscJunkie 02-12-2022 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flick Maniac (Post 3788958)
YMMV but what I have thrown and heard people say is not that at all. More like a 11 speed Firebird, at least in Active Premium they are notoriously overstable and not matching the flight numbers. This may or may not apply more to the first run of premium Mentors though.

The Mentor had an early run in AP plastic, mine was yellow, that was board flat and is so overstable that it’s just un-usable for me. Basically a round brick.

I got a pink AP Mentor for next-to-nothing a month or so back to see if it matched the Flight Numbers. It does, maybe a tick more stable than advertised, but much closer than the earlier one.

Hopefully the older one was just a freak run.

Flick Maniac 02-13-2022 03:25 AM

Seems to compute. Pretty sure the one I threw a way back was yellow too, and very flat.

robdeforge 02-16-2022 01:11 PM

Just picked up a couple of the pink iron samurais :) still plenty available if anybody on here forgot and is interested!

DiscT 02-16-2022 09:37 PM

Any theories on why there are still several IS3s still available? First glow plastic, infamous DM signature disc, Eagle. I thought they’d push.

Also, anyone have any thoughts/theories why DM has such limited color variety when it comes to their plastic? Everything has been pink and blue for quite some time. Special edition discs will yield different colors, but why?

Skervoy 02-17-2022 03:18 AM

Well most people maybe already bought the reg MD3 and dont need a glow version (also this glow is untested by the masses so might be that people dont like to be first)?

kw83028 02-17-2022 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscT (Post 3790874)
Any theories on why there are still several IS3s still available? First glow plastic, infamous DM signature disc, Eagle. I thought they’d push.

Our store did not purchase any to sell. I just typed up and deleted a giant list of reasons, full of analytics, but in the end, the short answer for our store is: average shelf life for DM signature discs (minus Cloudbreaker) is measured in months, and dealer cost for these was 65% higher than any other company's signature discs. In our retailer group of 14 stores, only two bought any IS3's for their store. Ultra-Premium prices have yet to catch on to the general public. They remain ultra-niche and generally a tough sell.

DiscT 02-17-2022 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kw83028 (Post 3790931)
Our store did not purchase any to sell. I just typed up and deleted a giant list of reasons, full of analytics, but in the end, the short answer for our store is: average shelf life for DM signature discs (minus Cloudbreaker) is measured in months, and dealer cost for these was 65% higher than any other company's signature discs. In our retailer group of 14 stores, only two bought any IS3's for their store. Ultra-Premium prices have yet to catch on to the general public. They remain ultra-niche and generally a tough sell.

This is very insightful. Thanks for responding.

ArtemisClydFr0g 02-17-2022 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscT (Post 3790874)
Any theories on why there are still several IS3s still available? First glow plastic, infamous DM signature disc, Eagle. I thought they’d push.

I saw between 4 and 5 thousand blues in stock on Discmania.net shortly after release. A lot of retailers I've never heard of were popping up this week too. I'm sure they made more than any run of Crowned Eagle or Iron Samurai, so that along with the price surely affected things. Scalpers are less likely to buy them for $30 each when they are risking not being able to move them. I'd say it's a win for Discmania and the fans.

Another theory - after the stock C-line came out they likely lost a percentage of original MD3 fans. It could be 2% or it could be 10%, but the bottom line is the plastic is different and some people just like what they like. Maybe they are comfortable with their stack of Innova molded discs, or maybe they moved on to an Infinite Discs mold. So that could've affected the number of people buying this release.

I personally bought a pair of the new C-lines and a pair of the IS3s just to try out, but I don't think either will kick the S-line out of my bag. If that holds true, I will probably hold off on getting any more MD3s until I can try a stock S-line when/if they come out.

Agarner14 02-17-2022 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscT (Post 3790874)
Any theories on why there are still several IS3s still available? First glow plastic, infamous DM signature disc, Eagle. I thought they’d push.

Also, anyone have any thoughts/theories why DM has such limited color variety when it comes to their plastic? Everything has been pink and blue for quite some time. Special edition discs will yield different colors, but why?

I think there are several factors at play here:
- Disc: The new MD3 isn't the old MD3. The color glow plastic is new and unproven.
- Price: $30 dollars for a disc is pretty steep. That's almost the combined price of 2 champion/z-line type discs.

Combine uncertainty about the disc plus the price point and you've already lost some "on the fence" buyers right there. I'm surprised to see that no one is mentioning DM supply problems here. Everything is getting delayed and I imagine that some DM throwers are either beginning to or thinking about switching to other more readily available molds/plastics/brands. It is just inevitable that some of the hype and some of the demand drops off.

ray1970 02-17-2022 11:29 AM

I can only chime in with why I didn’t buy one.

I bagged an original Iron Samurai. Even when I had it in my bag it was pretty much irreplaceable so I often found myself throwing something else if the shot was risky.

The new runs don’t appeal to me because the price is a little steep and even if I loved it and threw it a lot who knows if I could find a replacement later down the road if something happened to it.

Also, I loved the original that I had in the C-line, glow, metal flake plastic. Maybe the new plastic is just as good or better but I didn’t want to pay $30 to find out.

I’m all for buying a disc to support a player but it needs to be something I’ll actually bag and throw and it would be nice to know I could easily replace it down the road if I wanted to.

The MD3 was (is?) a good disc but there are plenty of similar options out there that are half the price and very easy to replace.


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