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-   -   The Twitch of the Hips (https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137717)

RandyC 10-19-2020 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3645515)
It's not something you feel as much as you see in video playback. Understanding how and when hip rotation initiation occurs is really critical to being able to engage the hips and torso correctly. Im not talking about just spinning the hips out of control. Im talking about that first initial turn and how from there it's a continuous smooth rotation into release. That rotation happens before strong brace. I keep mentioning "strong brace" because that is the moment when everything explodes so to speak. At the moment of strong brace is when the weight is fully shifted, the front hip is coming up, the disc is in acceleration mode and the hips better have rotated ahead of the shoulders at this point. If one gets to strong brace and no rotation from the hips have occurred, then there is no possible way the hips or torso can generate any power and it will only be all arm at that point.

So how much do the hips really turn by the moment of strong brace? From all the frame by frame video I've watched, in general, the hips will have rotated halfway through their total rotation by this point. We don't actually feel this though. It actually feels like we don't really turn the hips until strong brace. The reason being is that our eyes which is inside our head is still looking back and the shoulders are still turned backwards to some degree and it's happening so fast we assume no hip rotation has occurred to this point and then our brain triggers explosion mode and accelerates the disc into release. This delay of the upper body tricks our brains into thinking our whole body was rotating all at the same time. In reality though, our lower half was already rotating into strong brace and continued rotating into release. It's why you see in super slow motion a smooth transition of the rotating hips from just before the front foot touches down all the way through weight shift and into release. The upper body is delayed to intentionally create the rotational torque to build up the power to strongly rotate the upper body into release.

Lets assume all this nonsense is true, everyone rotates their rear hip and delay their shoulder rotation by sheer magic and get those 400-600ft distances. Why isnt it working for you and how do you know how it feels to throw 400,500,600ft?

RoDeO 10-19-2020 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyC (Post 3645540)
Lets assume all this nonsense is true, everyone rotates their rear hip and delay their shoulder rotation by sheer magic and get those 400-600ft distances. Why isnt it working for you and how do you know how it feels to throw 400,500,600ft?

Throwing 400-600 feet takes time. You don't just wake up one day and go from 200 to 600 feet because you lined up all the mechanics. You still have to train, build, and condition muscle groups to fire quickly and your body mechanics to flow smoothly. That takes time. And it takes even more time as you get older. I've been playing almost 4 months. Im not far off from 400 feet now. You make it sound like the average person throws 400-600 feet within the first year? What planet are you on?

RoDeO 10-19-2020 09:59 AM

In the hammer back hand throwing drill the arm isn't really whipping the hammer through. I tried to replicate the whip with the hammer and about clobbered my torso with the hammer as I tried to whip the hammer through. It only works using momentum and arming it.

seedlings 10-19-2020 10:00 AM

It is prudent to learn from those who have taken the time and developed muscle memory. It sounds foolish for a new player to lecture advanced players in technique. Adding lecture upon lecture only exacerbates the apparent foolishness.

NoseDownKing 10-19-2020 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3645588)
In the hammer back hand throwing drill the arm isn't really whipping the hammer through. I tried to replicate the whip with the hammer and about clobbered my torso with the hammer as I tried to whip the hammer through. It only works using momentum and arming it.

So you're doing it incorrectly lol. With your logic I could say, "We can walk on the ice, because I saw a leaf fall on it and the ice didn't break"

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

RoDeO 10-19-2020 10:16 AM

I think it's wise to truly understand what the top players actually do, not necessarily what they think they do, and then try to duplicate those mechanics. That's all I am doing. Using that wisdom, I'm throwing great and am on a good pathway.

RoDeO 10-19-2020 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoseDownKing (Post 3645590)
So you're doing it incorrectly lol. With your logic I could say, "We can walk on the ice, because I saw a leaf fall on it and the ice didn't break"

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

I tried to actually throw the hammer just like I do a disc and as I brought the hammer into my power pocket the end of the hammer swung into my torso and as I started to whip it, it only made it worse. I tried it slower several times but with the same result. It's just not meant to be thrown like you do with a disc.

SaROCaM 10-19-2020 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3645596)
I think it's wise to truly understand what the top players actually do, not necessarily what they think they do, and then try to duplicate those mechanics. That's all I am doing. Using that wisdom, I'm throwing great and am on a good pathway.

There are biomechanical ideals and principles of physics that affect everyone. The top throwers are matching their throws to this. That is why you see Kevin Jones and others going through the pre-throw motions of getting on the front leg and swinging. People have form/mechanical breakdowns, mobility issues, anatomical differences, etc. That is why there is a wide range of variation. If you do not understand the ideal, then when you focus on what players actually do, how do you know you are not focusing on something that is less than ideal?

For example, you focused on Paul Oman saying he has perfect form. His long levers allow him to throw farther with less than ideal form. If you took someone who is shorter and had them throw that way, they would have a difficult time achieving similar distance.

Let's say perfect form would have someone throwing 600'. But due to an issue with mechanics, mobility, etc. they throw 500'. Without understanding what the ideal is, how do you know that what you are doing isn't copying the issue that limits their throw to 5/6th of their potential? Yes, it is what they are doing, but even 500' throwers can be doing things better.

SaROCaM 10-19-2020 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3645600)
I tried to actually throw the hammer just like I do a disc and as I brought the hammer into my power pocket the end of the hammer swung into my torso and as I started to whip it, it only made it worse. I tried it slower several times but with the same result. It's just not meant to be thrown like you do with a disc.

If something doesn't work for you, that's fine, don't do it. But why is it that when something doesn't work for you or make sense to you, you label it as incorrect, even if numerous other people are using/understanding it successfully?

RandyC 10-19-2020 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDeO (Post 3645600)
I tried to actually throw the hammer just like I do a disc and as I brought the hammer into my power pocket the end of the hammer swung into my torso and as I started to whip it, it only made it worse. I tried it slower several times but with the same result. It's just not meant to be thrown like you do with a disc.

Or maybe the disc is not meant to be thrown like you do.


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