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-   -   Everyone in disc golf has peaked. (https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134561)

ChrisWoj 07-15-2019 12:59 PM

Everyone in disc golf has peaked.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rocthecourse (Post 3472566)
Isn't it possible that Paul isn't playing better but everyone else has peaked?

Discuss.

R-Ogre 07-15-2019 01:01 PM

Is this serious, or is this a DGCR meme/inside joke? I’m still new here...

Streets 07-15-2019 01:09 PM

The quality of DGCR threads certainly has peaked...this place used to be so entertaining.

Horsman 07-15-2019 01:27 PM

I would agree that Paul hasnt gotten better. I have always thought that the way the that ratings are calculated that over time ratings will continue to increase for the same scores thrown. Id predict 1100 rated players in the next 50 years

Dcinmd 07-15-2019 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horsman (Post 3473077)
I would agree that Paul hasnt gotten better. I have always thought that the way the that ratings are calculated that over time ratings will continue to increase for the same scores thrown. Id predict 1100 rated players in the next 50 years

I will do my part to keep the overall numbers down. :D

scarpfish 07-15-2019 03:08 PM

Disc golf has peaked. Burn your discs everyone. All of them, not just Grooves.

Cornhole forever!!

bwgort 07-15-2019 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horsman (Post 3473077)
I would agree that Paul hasnt gotten better. I have always thought that the way the that ratings are calculated that over time ratings will continue to increase for the same scores thrown. Id predict 1100 rated players in the next 50 years

Is there historical support for that claim? Do the same courses produce continually higher ratings year after year?

Horsman 07-15-2019 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwgort (Post 3473142)
Is there historical support for that claim? Do the same courses produce continually higher ratings year after year?

Not sure, im probably just pulling something out my end but I feel like thats where ratings are going. Totally opinion, did zero research.

chevis 07-15-2019 05:14 PM

if not everyone has peaked, are we in the landfill?

Cgkdisc 07-15-2019 05:22 PM

The significant increase in artificial OB on several courses for top level events has been a source inflating elite player round ratings because the same degree of offline throwing errors made on courses in the past with minimal OB now have "additional stroke padding" not truly indicating a worse throw than before. Lower rated props tend to pile on these penalties more than top pros playing courses above their throwing precision level and/or risk/reward decision making thus boosting the SSA and resulting player ratings for those who successfully avoid as many penalties.

NDABRUSH 07-15-2019 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cgkdisc (Post 3473153)
The significant increase in artificial OB on several courses for top level events has been a source inflating elite player round ratings because the same degree of offline throwing errors made on courses in the past with minimal OB now have "additional stroke padding" not truly indicating a worse throw than before. Lower rated props tend to pile on these penalties more than top pros playing courses above their throwing precision level and/or risk/reward decision making thus boosting the SSA and resulting player ratings for those who successfully avoid as many penalties.

Wow Chuck, you seem to be channeling your inner Leonard Nimoy. I just picture Spock saying your entire post while holding his hands together behind his back. :clap::hfive:

rocthecourse 07-15-2019 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisWoj (Post 3473061)
Discuss.

From what I have seen a lot of the other top guys from the last year or two haven't been playing as well this year. I wondered if that could be what is pushing Paul's rating up.

DavidSauls 07-15-2019 10:03 PM

I, for one, rather like the notion that everyone has peaked.

For the first time in my life, I'm a trendsetter.

Jukeshoe 07-15-2019 10:04 PM

Quote:

Everyone in disc golf has peaked.
Once or twice...

jeffmonty 07-15-2019 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scarpfish (Post 3473117)
Disc golf has peaked. Burn your discs everyone. All of them, not just Grooves.

Cornhole forever!!

I heard the other day from an imaginary friend that after the Olympics Cornhole will probably peak. :|

air show 07-15-2019 10:37 PM

Someone should ask Kevin Jones this question.

Hyzflip10 07-15-2019 11:06 PM

lord, these peaked threads make me miss the BBQ thread drifts, and that is saying ALOT.

ChrisWoj 07-16-2019 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streets (Post 3473069)
The quality of DGCR threads certainly has peaked...this place used to be so entertaining.

This post is actually the quality of DGCR threads peaking. This is the height of DGCR in its most self-realized form. All downhill from here.

ChrisWoj 07-16-2019 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R-Ogre (Post 3473065)
Is this serious, or is this a DGCR meme/inside joke? Iím still new here...

As of the time you posted.... B.
As of now... A.

Streets 07-16-2019 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisWoj (Post 3473320)
This post is actually the quality of DGCR threads peaking. This is the height of DGCR in its most self-realized form. All downhill from here.

No it's been on a downhill slide for a few years now...

Keller 07-16-2019 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streets (Post 3473381)
No it's been on a downhill slide for a few years now...

I blame Casey and SD86

Dustin Keegan is probably involved too!:p

Streets 07-16-2019 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keller (Post 3473384)
I blame Casey and SD86

Dustin Keegan is probably involved too!:p

Add Noill and Vegans to the list and we are in agreement. :thmbup:

GripEnemy 07-16-2019 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streets (Post 3473387)
Add Noill and Vegans to the list and we are in agreement. :thmbup:

I need to clarify. Vegan Ray included?

ChrisWoj 07-16-2019 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streets (Post 3473381)
No it's been on a downhill slide for a few years now...

I dunno, I just made a total idiot post and it naturally gravitated within three posts to a serious disc golf discussion. Not bad. ;)

Streets 07-16-2019 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GripEnemy (Post 3473427)
I need to clarify. Vegan Ray included?

VR had his moments lol.

ilmcgee 07-16-2019 11:12 PM

I peaked before I started.

DiscFifty 07-17-2019 12:43 AM

Interesting op...perhaps the current generation has indeed peaked. But if you haven't already, start researching those young champ ams coming up, I'm guessing they're playing much better than young Paul did.

BogeyNoMore 07-17-2019 09:48 AM

FTFY
Quote:

Originally Posted by ilmcgee (Post 3473620)
I peeked before I started.


Casey 1988 07-18-2019 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streets (Post 3473381)
No it's been on a downhill slide for a few years now...

At times I do not help, Others I give how I do parts or info I can give, and others I get other people to give the right info as I was told wrong when I first started playing in mid 2003 about some then recent history with some of the plastics and disc molds.

Casey 1988 07-18-2019 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keller (Post 3473384)
I blame Casey and SD86

Dustin Keegan is probably involved too!:p

At times I blame my self thought at times I help get more info on the sport with my mistake thanks to people like you Keller. SD86 seems to have mostly good posts though like me he can repeat himself quite a bit like me. Not sure why you are so hard on SD86 Keller?

Dustin Keegen was a poster on here, or at least a person with that handle name was on DGCR?

ChrisWoj 07-18-2019 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscFifty (Post 3473658)
Interesting op...perhaps the current generation has indeed peaked. But if you haven't already, start researching those young champ ams coming up, I'm guessing they're playing much better than young Paul did.

OP was a joke - but to be serious, you're right. I've been saying for years that Paul and Ricky were the faucet opening, the talent getting to where it's more than a drip. The faucet isn't done opening yet - the field is gonna be packed with guys at that 1050 level soon enough.

NOStheBOSS 07-18-2019 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisWoj (Post 3474179)
OP was a joke - but to be serious, you're right. I've been saying for years that Paul and Ricky were the faucet opening, the talent getting to where it's more than a drip. The faucet isn't done opening yet - the field is gonna be packed with guys at that 1050 level soon enough.

Since ratings are relative, I doubt it. Scores may get better but you will always only have those top 2 or 3 players that are good enough (or that much better than their competitors) to be above the 1050 level.

rocthecourse 07-18-2019 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisWoj (Post 3474179)
OP was a joke.


I thought it was a joke.

SD86 07-18-2019 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horsman (Post 3473077)
I would agree that Paul hasnt gotten better. I have always thought that the way the that ratings are calculated that over time ratings will continue to increase for the same scores thrown. Id predict 1100 rated players in the next 50 years

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwgort (Post 3473142)
Is there historical support for that claim? Do the same courses produce continually higher ratings year after year?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horsman (Post 3473146)
Not sure, im probably just pulling something out my end but I feel like thats where ratings are going. Totally opinion, did zero research.

I think Horsman is correct, and my precedent for it is tournament Chess. There has been ratings inflation and ratings creep for years, slowly but surely. Are today's players better than Bobby Fischer and Boris Spassky? Maybe, with the better tools they have to aid them. But in the overall, ratings are creeping up. It's kinda like economic inflation and its destructive value on currency over time.

So yes, I would agree that there is slow but very present 'inflation' in the ratings over time.

SD86 07-18-2019 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisWoj (Post 3474179)
OP was a joke - but to be serious, you're right. I've been saying for years that Paul and Ricky were the faucet opening, the talent getting to where it's more than a drip. The faucet isn't done opening yet - the field is gonna be packed with guys at that 1050 level soon enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NOStheBOSS (Post 3474186)
Since ratings are relative, I doubt it. Scores may get better but you will always only have those top 2 or 3 players that are good enough (or that much better than their competitors) to be above the 1050 level.

I was going to say that, as well. No matter how good 'the field' gets, there will always be a few super-elites at the very top. That's true in every sport, as well as tournament Chess, and it will be true of DG as well.

ChrisWoj 07-18-2019 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NOStheBOSS (Post 3474186)
Since ratings are relative, I doubt it. Scores may get better but you will always only have those top 2 or 3 players that are good enough (or that much better than their competitors) to be above the 1050 level.

I agree completely with that - but I think that what you're missing is that the talent level, related to both the athleticism of people in the game and the age at which those people start means that that particular subset of the population will get into the game, for a time, at a faster rate than before. While, I think (could be wrong) that growth is near an exponential line, I'm just saying I think the growth at the top end is turning upward a little sharper right now.

Ryan C 07-18-2019 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD86 (Post 3474219)
I think Horsman is correct, and my precedent for it is tournament Chess. There has been ratings inflation and ratings creep for years, slowly but surely. Are today's players better than Bobby Fischer and Boris Spassky? Maybe, with the better tools they have to aid them. But in the overall, ratings are creeping up. It's kinda like economic inflation and its destructive value on currency over time.

So yes, I would agree that there is slow but very present 'inflation' in the ratings over time.

I'm a tournament chess player, and I'm not sure I agree. Bobby Fisher topped out at 2775 rated. The highest rated player ever is Magnus Carlson, who at his peak was 2884.

That is an increase of just 3.5% over a period of almost 50 years since Bobby Fisher achieved his highest rating. Considering how much technologyhas improved, I am 100% sure that Magnus is 3.5% stronger than Fisher was. Not that he was more naturally gifted, just that he is objectively 3.5% harder to beat. I think Chess is great case for how ratings actually DON'T inflate that much over time.

SD86 07-18-2019 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan C (Post 3474304)
I'm a tournament chess player, and I'm not sure I agree. Bobby Fisher topped out at 2775 rated. The highest rated player ever is Magnus Carlson, who at his peak was 2884.

That is an increase of just 3.5% over a period of almost 50 years since Bobby Fisher achieved his highest rating. Considering how much technologyhas improved, I am 100% sure that Magnus is 3.5% stronger than Fisher was. Not that he was more naturally gifted, just that he is objectively 3.5% harder to beat. I think Chess is great case for how ratings actually DON'T inflate that much over time.

You're partly right, but IIRC Fischer was all alone at his rating in 1972 when he won the World title. Spassky was a good bit lower, as were their peers. I'll have to look up their ratings at that time, but the average GM rating was lower than it (the average) is today. And that's where the ratings creep has occurred, moreso than the top few players ever.

Anyhoo, I do think there will be ratings creep in DG over time. Slowly, but surely...

Cgkdisc 07-18-2019 02:25 PM

Unfortunately, the ability to compare ratings back in history was disrupted as the number of tour courses with punitive OB increased. These courses artificially inflate not only the top end ratings but everyone in the event without additional skill being demonstrated. It's likely that after taking out the OB effect, McBeth would still have a higher rating than Climo at his peak but probably not as much as currently displayed, with his forehand skill likely being the relevant difference.

Ryan C 07-18-2019 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD86 (Post 3474318)
You're partly right, but IIRC Fischer was all alone at his rating in 1972 when he won the World title. Spassky was a good bit lower, as were their peers. I'll have to look up their ratings at that time, but the average GM rating was lower than it (the average) is today. And that's where the ratings creep has occurred, moreso than the top few players ever.

Anyhoo, I do think there will be ratings creep in DG over time. Slowly, but surely...

Maybe, but it is difficult to argue that higher ratings are due to rating creep, and not to players simply getting better. I think in disc golf what we are seeing is certainly the latter.


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