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-   -   Stiffer flight plate = more distance? (https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140595)

seedlings 11-21-2021 07:41 PM

Stiffer flight plate = more distance?
 
Watching a random YT disc demo and guy said that he could tell which plastic had more distance by the flight plate. Dude said stiffer flight plate has more distance than softer flight plate, for the same mold. That sounds like mumbo jumbo to me based on Gstar, star, champ in my bag, but maybe itís a wives tale based on hint of truth?

GripEnemy 11-21-2021 08:08 PM

No science guru here, but that can't be true. I've thrown countless hundreds of discs over the years and never once was that an observation of mine. Typically domey goes farther, typically flatter means more overstable, but there's always exceptions to these rules.

Until discs are produced in the same facility as microprocessors or lab equipment, we'll never have a definitive answer.

For now the best we get is the same lab John Jones got his dick pills from (heh).

autocrosscrx 11-22-2021 10:36 AM

I've had a similar thought of recent...

I throw a lot of DX drivers. I really like stiff, chalky Destroyers and Wraiths. Since I tend to lose drivers, I'll occasion buy 3 DX drivers on a friday to get a F2 Friday disc that might be of interest. After years of getting stifff, chalky drivers, the last few orders have been these really soft, glossy, almost Pro-like discs. And they don't fly nearly as far.

...and I've had similar experience with Pro plastic. The last couple of Pro discs that I've ordered online were incredibly soft. And none of them fly nearly as far as the same molds Pro molds from a few years ago. Those are by no means stiff, but they are definitely stiffer than the new stuff.

ThrowaEnvy 11-22-2021 11:47 AM

Yeah, I kind of found that with envy's, comets and some drivers. All factors identical, a star/plasma plastic disc will not fly quite as far as a champ/proton. I figured something between less air resistance and less imperfections in the flight plate/dome. When the dome starts to drop or divot it will make it less stable but it also creates turbulence. IME it was maybe 10' difference. If you can get more flex out of a star disc it will increase your distance that way.

A slicker plastic should have less air resistance but if it affects your grip you also won't transfer as much power/spin. It also tends to fly straighter with less of an S.

Kinda like the dome thing, seems to me dome can add glide but it can also provide a touch more hss to overcome. Sometimes flat means it turns easier but fades harder and faster.

flatflip 11-22-2021 12:06 PM

Actually surface roughness improves aerodynamics, up to a point -- thus the dimples on a golf ball.

I am in the same boat -- I've cycled DX firebirds forever and I have a hard time getting the flight I want on low lines out of the softer blends, even with similar PLH and dome. Assuming this is my technique which torques the disc in a way that makes it burn over too quickly (like, it rolls more than a roadrunner). I've had to replace this slot recently with something more predictable (specifically a MOLF, and yes, they are stiff).

For some reason, I do not have this problem with floppy mids and putters. Guessing this is because I tend to get more air under them.

Three Putt 11-22-2021 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seedlings (Post 3770277)
Watching a random YT disc demo and guy said that he could tell which plastic had more distance by the flight plate. Dude said stiffer flight plate has more distance than softer flight plate, for the same mold. That sounds like mumbo jumbo to me based on Gstar, star, champ in my bag, but maybe itís a wives tale based on hint of truth?

People say a lot of things. I'd file that away under "funny things frolfer think are true" and move on with my day. :|

ThrowBot 11-22-2021 01:00 PM

Maybe the stiffness of the fight plate is a hand feel thing. Depending on grip & technique, some throwers might be able to rip harder on more firm disc.

chevis 11-22-2021 02:02 PM

more believable than saying 'nice' can affect disc flight

BillFleming 11-22-2021 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevis (Post 3770410)
more believable than saying 'nice' can affect disc flight

WAIT!!!! You mean it doesn't? Dang, now what excuse do I have?

seedlings 11-22-2021 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevis (Post 3770410)
more believable than saying 'nice' can affect disc flight

Wait, wait, hold on now. I played a glow round with a casual friend and an acquaintance who I had played with only once before. They got MAD at each other for calling nice.

Ahildy13 11-22-2021 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevis (Post 3770410)
more believable than saying 'nice' can affect disc flight

The vibrations in the air from your "nice" pushed my disc off line.

It's essentially the Butterfly effect.

jmdaire27 11-22-2021 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevis (Post 3770410)
more believable than saying 'nice' can affect disc flight

Iíve been involved in hundreds of shots where someone or I have said ďniceĒ (or similar) andÖ you are right. Itís a toss up.

As for the stiffness thing, Iíd also say ho-hum. Itís in your mind!

GripEnemy 11-22-2021 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevis (Post 3770410)
more believable than saying 'nice' can affect disc flight

Is nicing people useless?

I'd say it has more of an effect than the stiffness of a flight plate. A soft plate domey Valkyrie (Pro, 10/10 170) will fly farther than a firm plate flat Valk (Pro, 10/10 170). That's a hill I'll die on until someone can scientifically prove it.

Three Putt 11-22-2021 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GripEnemy (Post 3770474)
Is nicing people useless?

I'd say it has more of an effect than the stiffness of a flight plate. A soft plate domey Valkyrie (Pro, 10/10 170) will fly farther than a firm plate flat Valk (Pro, 10/10 170). That's a hill I'll die on until someone can scientifically prove it.

Yeah, I'd sit on that hill as well. I really don't think there is anything to this.

It's like back in the day when people said green and blue Cyclones were more OS; I had friends that would only throw green and blue Cyclones because of that. Was it true? I mean maybe? A little? Maybe not? Probably not. I mean if you could throw, you could throw a yellow Cyclone. Any little tiny bit of extra stability you might get from a green Cyclone wasn't going to take you from chump to champ. It was a psychological thing mostly. If throwing a green Cyclone somehow made you more confident, whatever. If digging thorough stacks of discs looking for stiff flight plates makes you think you can throw farther, you do you man.

For me it's just a buncha hooey. There are better features on a disc to be looking at IMO.

Innova63 11-22-2021 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Three Putt (Post 3770491)
Yeah, I'd sit on that hill as well. I really don't think there is anything to this.

It's like back in the day when people said green and blue Cyclones were more OS; I had friends that would only throw green and blue Cyclones because of that. Was it true? I mean maybe? A little? Maybe not? Probably not. I mean if you could throw, you could throw a yellow Cyclone. Any little tiny bit of extra stability you might get from a green Cyclone wasn't going to take you from chump to champ. It was a psychological thing mostly. If throwing a green Cyclone somehow made you more confident, whatever. If digging thorough stacks of discs looking for stiff flight plates makes you think you can throw farther, you do you man.

For me it's just a buncha hooey. There are better features on a disc to be looking at IMO.

Everyone here in SE WI wanted the Black Cyclones and X-Clones because they were "absolutely, positively, without doubt" the more over-stable color to throw...
It sucked at dusk late in the rounds, tough discs to find...some of us would say 3 minutes starting now, while the disc was still in the air because we hated looking for those d@mn discs...

By the way, I threw white Cyclones for the exact opposite reasons, they where "absolutely, positively, without doubt" the most under-stable Cyclones...

Three Putt 11-22-2021 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innova63 (Post 3770497)
Everyone here in SE WI wanted the Black Cyclones and X-Clones because they were "absolutely, positively, without doubt" the more over-stable color to throw...
It sucked at dusk late in the rounds, tough discs to find...some of us would say 3 minutes starting now, while the disc was still in the air because we hated looking for those d@mn discs...

By the way, I threw white Cyclones for the exact opposite reasons, they where "absolutely, positively, without doubt" the most under-stable Cyclones...

I think wherever you went it was "(insert a dark color) are the most OS". The Discraft green back then was a really dark green. Black, Green, Purple, Blue...those were the colors you would hear as being OS.

My go-to Cyclone for years was white because it had a rainbow foil stamp and I thought it looked cool. I found out later it was supposed to be understable. I was pretty new at the time.

ThrowaEnvy 11-23-2021 08:08 PM

Oh geez don't go bringing colours in here... that's a whole other hill and a whole other battle.... I swore that was BS and if I ever started believing that then I knew I was too far down the rabbit hole...

Let me tell you how awesome fr white inertia are....and yellow 2nd run esp comets. Haha. I am a believer but now I realize that PLH and dome differences caused by the colour additive is a viable explanation or that one colour might be run at the same time on one particular day..

BogeyNoMore 11-23-2021 08:51 PM

Yellow discs fly farther, but only when you eat red licorice. All the pros say so.

XDrocker 11-29-2021 12:49 PM

I BELIEVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i get most distance with stiff DX plastic!
just my opinion of course... ;)

Three Putt 11-29-2021 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore (Post 3770788)
Yellow discs fly farther, but only when you eat red licorice. All the pros say so.

The best Soft X APX are yellow. White is acceptable. Orange is pushing it. All other colors are straight-up trash; only the yellow and white ones have the magic APX glide. I'm not sure why, but I'll die on that hill. :|

GripEnemy 11-29-2021 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XDrocker (Post 3771562)
I BELIEVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i get most distance with stiff DX plastic!
just my opinion of course... ;)

That's reasonable with DX. The abrasions base plastic discs accumulate act like the dimples on a golf ball, breaking up the air surrounding the disc and aiding in distance. I can get more technical but yeah, with DX that makes sense I suppose.

More importantly, do you get more distance with a soft plate DX or a firm plate Champion/Star?

BogeyNoMore 11-29-2021 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Three Putt (Post 3771637)
The best Soft X APX are yellow. White is acceptable. Orange is pushing it. All other colors are straight-up trash; only the yellow and white ones have the magic APX glide. I'm not sure why, but I'll die on that hill. :|

I suppose Zenbot will eulogize you after you die on that hill?

Three Putt 11-29-2021 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore (Post 3771651)
I suppose Zenbot will eulogize you after you die on that hill?

Why would you have someone who hates me eulogize me? Are you going to roast me after I'm dead or something?

BogeyNoMore 11-29-2021 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Three Putt (Post 3771652)
Why would you have someone who hates me eulogize me? Are you going to roast me after I'm dead or something?

I was under the impression his feelings toward you are closer to "strongly despise," but fall short of true hatred.

ThrowaEnvy 11-29-2021 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GripEnemy (Post 3771642)
That's reasonable with DX. The abrasions base plastic discs accumulate act like the dimples on a golf ball, breaking up the air surrounding the disc and aiding in distance. I can get more technical but yeah, with DX that makes sense I suppose.

More importantly, do you get more distance with a soft plate DX or a firm plate Champion/Star?

DX is kinda different, I don't throw it but it makes things like a firebird controllable... biggest difference I noticed was between champ and star. I found those the most comparable. Straight line (champ) vs small S (star). Straightest line is always shortest distance between 2 points... but I'm still only talking about 5-10' (tops)

Stay away from MY yellow comets, they're all MINE I just haven't bought them yet.

Three Putt 11-29-2021 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore (Post 3771653)
I was under the impression his feelings toward you are closer to "strongly despise," but fall short of true hatred.

Don't fool yourself. If you aren't a Cheez-It cracker, he hates you.

You have never noticed the strange awesomeness that is a yellow Soft X APX? It's the next best thing to a swirl.

Three Putt 11-29-2021 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GripEnemy (Post 3771642)
That's reasonable with DX. The abrasions base plastic discs accumulate act like the dimples on a golf ball, breaking up the air surrounding the disc and aiding in distance. I can get more technical but yeah, with DX that makes sense I suppose.

More importantly, do you get more distance with a soft plate DX or a firm plate Champion/Star?

Specifically with XD's I call Bull****. In the 90's the stiff DX for years came out domey, the soft DX came out flat. The flat XD's bombed. The best thing that happened to the XD in the 90's was when they started running them in the softer putter plastic from the Aviar PandA. Less dome; more bomb.

Stiff flight plates are hooey. :|

zenbot 11-29-2021 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Three Putt (Post 3771652)
Why would you have someone who hates me eulogize me? Are you going to roast me after I'm dead or something?

That was the idea. We already have a private social group forming your dais.

GripEnemy 11-29-2021 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Three Putt (Post 3771663)
Specifically with XD's I call Bull****. In the 90's the stiff DX for years came out domey, the soft DX came out flat. The flat XD's bombed. The best thing that happened to the XD in the 90's was when they started running them in the softer putter plastic from the Aviar PandA. Less dome; more bomb.

Stiff flight plates are hooey. :|

Thanks for having my back:thmbup:

Just a, "thought experiment" to give others the benefit of the doubt lol

zenbot 11-29-2021 09:38 PM

Also I call BS on the stiff flight plate theory because my experience, not backed by any sort of science, is that PFN pro plastic has more "spring" out of your hand and goes farther.

zenbot 11-29-2021 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GripEnemy (Post 3771666)
Thanks for having my back:thmbup:

Just a, "thought experiment" to give others the benefit of the doubt lol

You know you're talking to a guy who never "bombed".

*pencils new joke in 3putt jokebook*

zenbot 11-29-2021 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Three Putt (Post 3771663)
Stiff flight plates are hooey. :|

Ditto.

BogeyNoMore 11-29-2021 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Three Putt (Post 3771660)
Don't fool yourself. If you aren't a Cheez-It cracker, he hates you.

You have never noticed the strange awesomeness that is a yellow Soft X APX? It's the next best thing to a swirl.

I actually had a yellow APX, but that was years ago. I can't recall whether it flew or felt any different. I've been bagging a white one for years. I'm positive I had it when we played Spencer Davis.

I have another just like it plus four swirls sitting in the practice basket in my garage. I use them whenever I pull my basket out.

But I've just gotten used to the one in my bag, so that's what I putt with. Seems to be just a bit less stable than the others, probs just from more use.


The good news is, I can miss chains just fine with any APX, so I'm really not all that picky. :|

Three Putt 11-29-2021 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenbot (Post 3771668)
You know you're talking to a guy who never "bombed".

NOT TRUE! All of my friends who were at open mike improv night said I bombed. SO THERE!

GripEnemy 11-29-2021 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenbot (Post 3771668)
You know you're talking to a guy who never "bombed".

*pencils new joke in 3putt jokebook*

Thanks for the lulz:D

Three Putt 11-29-2021 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore (Post 3771673)
I actually had a yellow APX, but that was years ago. I can't recall whether it flew or felt any different. I've been bagging a white one for years. I'm positive I had it when we played Spencer Davis.

I have another just like it plus four swirls sitting in the practice basket in my garage. I use them whenever I pull my basket out.

But I've just gotten used to the one in my bag, so that's what I putt with. Seems to be just a bit less stable than the others, probs just from more use.


The good news is, I can miss chains just fine with any APX, so I'm really not all that picky. :|

The APX was a "fix it" recommendation way back when; I prefer to torque monkey on a Wizard or KC Pro Aviar, but at one point I totally lost all ability to throw a putter and a guy said I should throw APX for a bit to get the touch back. I think I had a yellow and red one, the yellow one was more stable, had more glide, and was just better in every way.

I drop them and go back to the torque monkey as soon as they help me fix my problems, so when I need them I just buy more. Three times I bought them, three times the good one was the yellow one.

The last time I needed them somebody was unloading misprint Jawbreakers for $5 so I didn't get a yellow one. :\ My daughter stole my last soft X yellow one; I tried to get her to take a Jawbreaker one but she realized the yellow soft X was magic and took it.

BogeyNoMore 11-29-2021 11:45 PM

At least she kept it in the family.

Three Putt 11-30-2021 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore (Post 3771690)
At least she kept it in the family.

She's my doubles partner; I see that disc in the basket every week 'cause lord knows I'm not the good putter in that duo. :|

ThrowaEnvy 11-30-2021 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Three Putt (Post 3771743)
She's my doubles partner; I see that disc in the basket every week 'cause lord knows I'm not the good putter in that duo. :|

Haha kids, thats where my coolest concert shirts went!

Hey I was looking for you... are orange elite X cyclones any good? I just bought one :D

...kinda in good faith because the guy thinks he has an orange scorpion.... :D :D scorpions have to be orange... duh.

Three Putt 11-30-2021 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThrowaEnvy (Post 3771885)
Haha kids, thats where my coolest concert shirts went!

Hey I was looking for you... are orange elite X cyclones any good? I just bought one :D

...kinda in good faith because the guy thinks he has an orange scorpion.... :D :D scorpions have to be orange... duh.

Somebody say orange Scorpion?

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...pictureid=9000

Cyclones are weird. For me in X for some reason they just didn't go anywhere. They would ride the same lines as the TP Cyclones and pretty much act like a TP Cyclone, then land 20' short of where the TP Cyclones were landing. :\ Since I'm a weenie arm I didn't have 20' to give.

I did have an Orange 150g TP Cyclone (I still have it I think) that I got to try to quick beat into a turnover disc; it was weirdly stable for a Cyclone and didn't work at all for what I wanted it for but I threw it for a while.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...ictureid=39768


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