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Halcón 12-16-2020 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ru4por (Post 3670112)
As I suspected, you have no point.

How about you take you trolling back to the water cooler. Your childish, dishonest petitions for attention are weak.

Go away.

Do you have statistics that you'd like to share? Or do you just want to insult.

Nova P 12-16-2020 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halcón (Post 3670103)
Yea. If that's how you want to protect yourself, awesome.

It's not just me, it's all the people I could be infecting as well. I care about other people.

DavidSauls 12-16-2020 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halcón (Post 3670103)
Yea. If that's how you want to protect yourself, awesome. If an establishment is going to allow indoor dining, I just don't know what the advantage is of requiring masks, if people are going to eat without their masks anyway. (It seemed like the Denny's in that video had indoor dining.) Staggered seating, limited capacity, and adequate ventilation would probably do more to slow transmission than the masks themselves. (If anyone has stats on this, they would be interesting to see.)

Best practices are for people to wear masks while walking through the restaurant, and until their food is delivered. Obviously they can't wear them while eating, but they can reduce the maskless time (and proximity to others while walking), with very little effort.

ru4por 12-16-2020 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halcón (Post 3670114)
Do you have statistics that you'd like to share? Or do you just want to insult.

You are not interested in statistics, you are a pathetic troll. This is a solid thread for intelligent, honest discourse. Nothing for you here. Go away.

Halcón 12-16-2020 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nova P (Post 3670116)
It's not just me, it's all the people I could be infecting as well. I care about other people.

Yes, that could be a concern.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidSauls (Post 3670118)
Best practices are for people to wear masks while walking through the restaurant, and until their food is delivered. Obviously they can't wear them while eating, but they can reduce the maskless time (and proximity to others while walking), with very little effort.

That is the policy in many places, but again I'm wondering if there's data to back it up. (There are so many variables that data might be impossible to obtain. Number of patrons, number of staff, age/health of patrons, types of masks, spacing of tables, layout of establishment, time spent eating, ventilation system/air flow, temperature inside establishment...etc...etc.)

DavidSauls 12-16-2020 10:18 PM

I doubt there's specific data. There's data on restaurants. There's data on masks. It stands to reason that more mask usage in restaurants (where possible) is better than less.

ejvogie 12-16-2020 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidSauls (Post 3670132)
I doubt there's specific data. There's data on restaurants. There's data on masks. It stands to reason that more mask usage in restaurants (where possible) is better than less.

Also data on "mask type".

Basically crappy mask > no mask

Halcón 12-16-2020 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejvogie (Post 3670135)
Also data on "mask type".

Basically crappy mask > no mask

Neck gaiters are said to be worse than having no mask. And I see a fair amount of people wearing those.

ru4por 12-16-2020 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halcón (Post 3670141)
Neck gaiters are said to be worse than having no mask. And I see a fair amount of people wearing those.

You have been exposed. Your game is stale and sad. You have no interest in any of this. Go away.

teemkey 12-17-2020 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halcón (Post 3670129)
...
That is the policy in many places, but again I'm wondering if there's data to back it up. (There are so many variables that data might be impossible to obtain. Number of patrons, number of staff, age/health of patrons, types of masks, spacing of tables, layout of establishment, time spent eating, ventilation system/air flow, temperature inside establishment...etc...etc.)

There's solid data that camp fires sometimes cause forest fires. However, if the campers put the fires out before they go to sleep, the chance that their fire causes a forest fire is reduced by 90%. So, you know, put the damn fire out before climbing in your sleeping bag.

txmxer 12-17-2020 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore (Post 3669892)
I really don't want to think about having to wear a mask for indoor public settings the rest of my life.

If that ends up being the case, I honestly think theaters, concerts, sporting events, conventions....

Pretty much anything that puts bunches of people in close proximity to each other for a few hours could be dead, or look entirely different.

*pictures new stadium circa 2025... hardly any seating. :\*

lots of folks in Asia were wearing masks due to air quality. It's not really that big of a step.

I don't want to do it...but who knows.

txmxer 12-17-2020 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidSauls (Post 3669890)
As for the masks, I'm thinking that at some point we'll have enough immunity and perhaps treatments, to tame this down to the level of the flu -- perhaps the flu in a very bad flu year. Which I hate to say, since "flu" is one of the covidiots talking points, but we ought to get there eventually. Flu is still scary -- I've been citing it for years, as killing more people than drunk drivers or guns -- but it'll be a risk we live with, mostly maskless.

My hope is for Summer 2021.

Like you, I suspect the deaths due to COVID-19 will become much lower over time due to vaccines and immunity (safe assumption).

I haven't really thought about the long term beyond that. The "flu" is nothing specific (as I understand it). SARS didn't stick around. Will COVID-19 eventually become like SARS or will it become like seasonal "flu"?

I would prefer it to fade away, but I'm not expert.

Why do we still have the seasonal flu? We know it mutates and their are countless "varieties".

How do corona viruses compare to the "flu" as far as mutations which extend their life cycle? Meaning they keep coming back?

On the upside...what if using masks and minimizing transmission for COVID helps eradicate the seasonal flu and cold? Wishful thinking I'm sure, but we have a new paradigm. A new "normal". Could this have the unintended consequence of significantly reducing accepted virus transmission?

Make lemonade from lemons?

txmxer 12-17-2020 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidSauls (Post 3670118)
Best practices are for people to wear masks while walking through the restaurant, and until their food is delivered. Obviously they can't wear them while eating, but they can reduce the maskless time (and proximity to others while walking), with very little effort.

We dined out a few times. With the uptick in cases, I told Natalie (wife) that I didn't think it was a good idea. We have chosen to isolate more.

Our son still goes to public elementary school. They are pretty rigorous about COVID. We get regular reports (school district wide) and received an update from the school itself about a recent case.

It is a balancing act. I suppose if EVERYONE quarantined for a month it would be over. But that level of discipline isn't realistic in society (my observation). So, we have to drag this thing out and do our best.

Hopefully the vaccines will help us return to some sort of normalcy.

JedV 12-17-2020 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txmxer (Post 3670157)
lots of folks in Asia were wearing masks due to air quality. It's not really that big of a step.

I don't want to do it...but who knows.

The notion of wearing masks due to air pollution is completely asinine. You need a respirator that seals and actually filters. The surgical mask that is commonly worn in Asia pre pandemic does not protect against air pollution. Surgical masks, cloth masks are for droplets.

People will do sh!t that makes them feel better but may be completely futile.

txmxer 12-17-2020 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JedV (Post 3670162)
The notion of wearing masks due to air pollution is completely asinine. You need a respirator that seals and actually filters. The surgical mask that is commonly worn in Asia pre pandemic does not protect against air pollution. Surgical masks, cloth masks are for droplets.

People will do sh!t that makes them feel better but may be completely futile.

Placebos are the best!

Seriously, I don't know if it helps. I have 7 acres I bush hog occasionally and was thinking that a mask might help me reduce the crud I have in my sinuses afterward. Thoughts?

JedV 12-17-2020 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txmxer (Post 3670158)
Like you, I suspect the deaths due to COVID-19 will become much lower over time due to vaccines and immunity (safe assumption).

I haven't really thought about the long term beyond that. The "flu" is nothing specific (as I understand it). SARS didn't stick around. Will COVID-19 eventually become like SARS or will it become like seasonal "flu"?

I would prefer it to fade away, but I'm not expert.

Why do we still have the seasonal flu? We know it mutates and their are countless "varieties".

How do corona viruses compare to the "flu" as far as mutations which extend their life cycle? Meaning they keep coming back?

On the upside...what if using masks and minimizing transmission for COVID helps eradicate the seasonal flu and cold? Wishful thinking I'm sure, but we have a new paradigm. A new "normal". Could this have the unintended consequence of significantly reducing accepted virus transmission?

Make lemonade from lemons?

We have not defeated other coronaviruses that cause the common cold via vaccine. Nor influenza.

Hopefully masking, better hygiene, actually staying home while sick instead of going to work and spreading your germs will be lessons learned.

I am also optimistic of making some lemonade from this mess... But COVID-19 will not be eradicated and will be with us in its existing or mutated form for years do come.

JedV 12-17-2020 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txmxer (Post 3670164)
Placebos are the best!

Seriously, I don't know if it helps. I have 7 acres I bush hog occasionally and was thinking that a mask might help me reduce the crud I have in my sinuses afterward. Thoughts?

Bush crud and large particulate matter... Sure. That is different from trying to protect yourself from smog.

I wear a p100 respirator when mowing my lawn because of hay fever and asthma. My neighbors probably think I'm crazy because I'm wearing what looks like a gas mask. I'm just doing that I need to do to breathe later the day and not have an asthma attack.

Monocacy 12-17-2020 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JedV (Post 3670165)
I am also optimistic of making some lemonade from this mess... But COVID-19 will not be eradicated and will be with us in its existing or mutated form for years do come.

With multiple highly effective vaccines, we should be able to end the COVID-19 pandemic in the coming months. Whether COVID-19 can be eradicated, however, is a trickier question. Smallpox is the only human pathogen that has ever been eradicated.

If a virus has alternate hosts besides humans, eradication becomes difficult to impossible. Unfortunately SARS-CoV-2 can infect an unknown number of other mammals (cats, dogs, mink, etc.).

So it seems most likely that we will need a long-term plan to maintain control over the virus.

ru4por 12-17-2020 08:38 AM

Here are some common coronavirus vaccine myths and the truth behind each:

Myth: The vaccine was rushed, so it’s probably not safe.

Fact: The United States Food and Drug Administration closely monitored research by Pfizer and Moderna as the two companies worked toward a vaccine. The research suggests both vaccines have very little, if any, side effects, and is approximately 95% effective.

Additionally, the FDA has rigorous scientific and regulatory processes in place to facilitate development and ensure the safety, effectiveness and quality of COVID-19 vaccines.

In addition, Beaumont Health established a Vaccine Review Subcommittee comprised of experts in Infection Prevention, Research, Nursing and Pharmacy that will review all available data and make a recommendation to the Vaccine Steering Committee about proceeding to offer vaccine to employees, physicians and the community. Beaumont is committed to ensuring any vaccine provided to employees and the community is deemed safe by our expert panel.


Myth: Delays or pauses in the process meant trials weren’t going well.

Fact: Every scientific process, including creating vaccines, can have pauses or delays, but it doesn’t mean trials aren’t going well. Pauses or delays mean the safety system in place is working as it should, which is reassuring.

Earlier this year, Johnson & Johnson and AstraZeneca paused COVID-19 vaccination clinical trials in an overabundance of caution for the safety of volunteers. They have since resumed the trials.


Myth: I don’t want the COVID-19 virus injected into my body.

Fact: The COVID-19 vaccine does not use dead or weakened strains of coronavirus. mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna are a new type of vaccine to protect against infectious diseases. To trigger an immune response, many vaccines put a weakened or inactivated germ into our bodies. Not mRNA vaccines. Instead, they teach our cells how to make a protein—or even just a piece of a protein—that triggers an immune response inside our bodies. That immune response, which produces antibodies, is what protects us from getting infected if the real COVID-19 virus enters our bodies.


Myth: It’s safe for me to get vaccinated, but not my family. I don’t want the vaccine to get my family sick.

Fact: Receiving a vaccine will not make other people sick. Additionally, because the COVID-19 vaccination does not use any form of the virus, either in a dead or weakened state, any risk which might have been a possibility in transmitting COVID-19 to family or friends is not plausible.


Myth: I’ll get the first round of vaccine, but I won’t need the second.

Fact: There are some viruses and some bacteria that we vaccinate against and one dose of the vaccine just doesn't provide full immunity to prevent illness. Priming your immune system with the first dose allows it to react to it once, create some memory and then when you get exposed to it a second time through the second vaccination, it really develops that full, long-term memory.


Myth: If I get vaccinated for COVID-19, I’ll be more vulnerable to illnesses.

Fact: While the COVID-19 vaccine will work to teach your immune system to recognize and protect against coronavirus, it is not proven to make you vulnerable to other illnesses. You may experience the typical sore arm, slight fever or aches, but that’s a sign your immune system is active and getting ready to protect you against COVID-19, if necessary.


Myth: Because vaccines are available, the pandemic is over.

According to the CDC, while experts learn more about the protection COVID-19 vaccines provide under real-life conditions, it will be important for everyone to continue using all the tools available to us to help stop this pandemic, like covering your mouth and nose with a mask, washing hands often, and staying at least six feet away from others. Together, COVID-19 vaccination and following CDC’s recommendations for how to protect yourself and others will offer the best protection from getting and spreading COVID-19.

Experts need to understand more about the protection that COVID-19 vaccines provide before deciding to change recommendations on steps everyone should take to slow the spread of the virus that causes COVID-19. Other factors, including how many people get vaccinated and how the virus is spreading in communities, will also affect this decision.


Myth: The vaccine changes your DNA.

Fact: The vaccine does not change your DNA. It’s called an mRNA vaccine, which is a type of vaccine that causes your cells to make an inactive part of virus that triggers an immune response. That immune response is what protects us from getting infected if the real COVID-19 virus enters our bodies.

Streets 12-17-2020 08:44 AM

What about the Mark of the Beast™ microchip Bill Gates put in it? :|

BogeyNoMore 12-17-2020 09:27 AM

So my DNA I won't mutate, transforming me into another life form if I get vaccinated?

Damn. That was the whole appeal for me!

jakebake91 12-17-2020 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ru4por (Post 3670210)
Here are some common coronavirus vaccine myths and the truth behind each:

.

But. But. But. That basement dwelling, tinfoil hat wearing "doctor" my friend seen on youtube told me on Facebook that this is all fake news!!!!



Jokes aside. Thank you kindly for writing that up! I sincerely wish more people had even half enough sense to see information like this and believe it! Or at minimum, understand the difference between fact and fiction. To understand that just because "sources" spout information, it's not always vetted, reviewed, accurate or truthful. This year has really showed the true colors of a great many people in this world.

ru4por 12-17-2020 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore (Post 3670221)
So my DNA I won't mutate, transforming me into another life form if I get vaccinated?

Damn. That was the whole appeal for me!

Lol.....nobody gets to turn into their spirit animal.

jakebake91 12-17-2020 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ru4por (Post 3670234)
Lol.....nobody gets to turn into their spirit animal.

Dammmmm. I always wanted to be a tortoise.....

DavidSauls 12-17-2020 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore (Post 3670221)
So my DNA I won't mutate, transforming me into another life form if I get vaccinated?

Damn. That was the whole appeal for me!

Yeah. I didn't get dealt the best DNA hand, back at the beginning. I was going to play the odds that any changes, might be in my favor.

Monocacy 12-17-2020 10:04 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Yeah the "changing your DNA" misconception seems oddly prevalent. Pay attention in science class, kids!

Also note that the arrows go one way.

Translation: DNA to mRNA to protein | Nature Education (clicky)

ru4por 12-17-2020 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monocacy (Post 3670241)
Yeah the "changing your DNA" misconception seems oddly prevalent. Pay attention in science class, kids!

Also note that the arrows go one way.

Translation: DNA to mRNA to protein | Nature Education (clicky)

Nice. I agree that it is odd, that it seems so few grasp the concepts. This was first introduced in middle school, in my education. Were that many kids just not paying attention? Was teaching biology not universal in school systems? Is the educational system, in general, just not effective? :confused::confused:

autocrosscrx 12-17-2020 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ru4por (Post 3670256)
Nice. I agree that it is odd, that it seems so few grasp the concepts. This was first introduced in middle school, in my education. Were that many kids just not paying attention? Was teaching biology not universal in school systems? Is the educational system, in general, just not effective? :confused::confused:

I probably learned all that, but my head is now full of risk calculations and earned value management rules and remembering which of my Rocs is most stable and who won the 1972 American League MVP award and the alignment settings to my car and when my credit card bill is due and whatnot.

jakebake91 12-17-2020 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ru4por (Post 3670256)
Nice. I agree that it is odd, that it seems so few grasp the concepts. This was first introduced in middle school, in my education. Were that many kids just not paying attention? Was teaching biology not universal in school systems? Is the educational system, in general, just not effective? :confused::confused:

Too many people just can't help but believe the idiot babble the hear on the internet, and can't be bothered to fact check anything they hear or want to believe.

And school was sooooo long ago. Well, for some of you anyways haha.

Monocacy 12-17-2020 11:14 AM

To be fair - I was a biology major and had forgotten the part about mRNA not being transported into the nucleus. But it has been mumble mumble decades since cell biology class.

CDC has a nice explanation of how mRNA vaccines work.
Facts about COVID-19 mRNA Vaccines

They cannot give someone COVID-19.

- mRNA vaccines do not use the live virus that causes COVID-19.

They do not affect or interact with our DNA in any way.

- mRNA never enters the nucleus of the cell, which is where our DNA (genetic material) is kept.

- The cell breaks down and gets rid of the mRNA soon after it is finished using the instructions.
Understanding mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines | CDC (clicky)

DavidSauls 12-17-2020 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ru4por (Post 3670256)
Nice. I agree that it is odd, that it seems so few grasp the concepts. This was first introduced in middle school, in my education. Were that many kids just not paying attention? Was teaching biology not universal in school systems? Is the educational system, in general, just not effective? :confused::confused:

I'm not sure how much of this was known, when I was in middle school.

jakebake91 12-17-2020 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidSauls (Post 3670282)
I'm not sure how much of this was known, when I was in middle school.

Was it before the discovery of DNA??????


Curious kids* wanna know hahaha.


Kidding kidding. Kind of. Mostly. Lol.




*Jake is gonna play the "kid" card till it's absolutely impossible!

ejvogie 12-17-2020 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakebake91 (Post 3670326)
Was it before the discovery of DNA??????


Curious kids* wanna know hahaha.


Kidding kidding. Kind of. Mostly. Lol.




*Jake is gonna play the "kid" card till it's absolutely impossible!

< Still mentally a kid, according to my wife.

DavidSauls 12-17-2020 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakebake91 (Post 3670326)
Was it before the discovery of DNA??????


Curious kids* wanna know hahaha.


Kidding kidding. Kind of. Mostly. Lol.




*Jake is gonna play the "kid" card till it's absolutely impossible!

I think the double helix concept was fairly new when I was in middle school (ca. 1970).

DavidSauls 12-17-2020 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidSauls (Post 3670373)
I think the double helix concept was fairly new when I was in middle school (ca. 1970).

I've kept up with other fields of science, a bit better. I never imagined that RNA would one day become a common topic of discussion.

Monocacy 12-17-2020 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejvogie (Post 3670368)
< Still mentally a kid, according to my wife.

"You're only young once. But you can be immature forever." :)

dysmike 12-17-2020 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JedV (Post 3670166)
Bush crud and large particulate matter... Sure. That is different from trying to protect yourself from smog.

I wear a p100 respirator when mowing my lawn because of hay fever and asthma. My neighbors probably think I'm crazy because I'm wearing what looks like a gas mask. I'm just doing that I need to do to breathe later the day and not have an asthma attack.

You don't need a p100 for that, a N95 would suffice (if fitted properly). You're not being exposed to oils (that's what the p designates). They're both pretty much equally effective for particulates.

Since it's been mentioned, every time I've been in Asia.. those surgical masks have been worn mostly during cold season, to limit spread.

When the AQ has been bad in Shanghai, if people were wearing masks they were particulate masks (kn95s etc) since the bulk of their pollutants are actually particulates. Just like it was here during the forest fires last year.. so yea, particulate filtration does have a positive effect.

ru4por 12-17-2020 08:18 PM

I want to say this surprises me, but this guy has been reported as a religious wackjob for years.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...180513750.html

JedV 12-17-2020 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dysmike (Post 3670455)
You don't need a p100 for that, a N95 would suffice (if fitted properly). You're not being exposed to oils (that's what the p designates). They're both pretty much equally effective for particulates.

Since it's been mentioned, every time I've been in Asia.. those surgical masks have been worn mostly during cold season, to limit spread.

When the AQ has been bad in Shanghai, if people were wearing masks they were particulate masks (kn95s etc) since the bulk of their pollutants are actually particulates. Just like it was here during the forest fires last year.. so yea, particulate filtration does have a positive effect.

I don't disagree, all good points.

I know that it's overkill. I have the pink p100 filters from when I was doing renovations at my house. It's what I've got on hand (can't get replacement n95s if I wanted to because of the supply chain being effed by the pandemic.

Also forgot to mention that my asthma is triggered by smoke/exhaust and the crappy gas lawnmower I own sure spews out a lot.

My comments about Asia were based on crappy news coverage with people wearing paper masks that don't seal to protect them from pollution. Could be sh!tty reporting, could be dumb mask users, I don't know. I was thinking about ultrafine (PM2.5) kind of particles that surgical masks won't protect against.

I wore my P100 outfitted respirator during first fire season this summer, while commuting to work by bike. I looked absolutely ridiculous. But otherwise would have had a significant asthma attack ;)

Hampstead 12-17-2020 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ru4por (Post 3670519)
I want to say this surprises me, but this guy has been reported as a religious wackjob for years.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...180513750.html

https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-30-2016/jzQQuC.gif


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