Patent Pending--the original molds. Some of the older molds have been retooled I believe over time, including when MVP brought production in house. Crave, relay, resistor seemed to have the largest variance when this happened from my knowledge.

Sounds like your Relay is before they moved in house. When they moved them in house, they were flying almost 0/2, like the PP Craves were. Now that both are in house though, they fly much more similarly for the most recent releases. I wouldn't bag both of the new runs.

I have a somewhat long history of complaining about and to MVP when they "reconditioned" the Crave when they moved production in house. When I first saw the flight numbers they put on them as 6.5/5/-1/1, I was super confused. I had never had a Crave fly with -1 turn. I always called my Craves 7/5/0/1.5. I didn't buy one until the Hokom Craves were released. It flew almost identical to my PP Relays. 7/5/-2/1 is what I would call it. It was so much like my Relays that I just swapped out my Relay I was carrying at the time for it.

When the newer run of Hokoms was released, I heard a few people saying they were more stable, so I risked it when I found a gorgeous swirly grey one. It flies true to the flight numbers, but still isn't stable like the PP Craves. To me, the Hokoms, and probably all runs made in house, shouldn't even be called Craves anymore. They're different discs. Even the more stable current Hokoms are terrible in a headwind, where the PP ones were still great.

All that being said, I've got the newer Hokom in my bag currently, because I'm just using the Wrath as my stable driver/fairway and using the Hokom like a slightly more stable Relay for turnovers, hyzerfilps, etc. I am hoping when the Rhythm finally releases it will be closer to what the original Craves were, maybe even a little more stable.

Patent Pending

None of the PP molds fit their new machines, so they had to make new molds to fit. They "reconditioned" most of them to "fly as intended". There were several molds that were way off their flight numbers when they did this. Resistor, Crave, Relay, and Volt were probably the most dramatic. It seems they've adjusted either their cooling times, or the mold for the Crave and Relay since, and they've gotten better in recent runs. The Volt is back to being stable as it was when first released, but for awhile the PP Volts were flying much less stable than the current runs.

How could you not consider the Envy a fairway? Don't you throw it off the tee, into the fairway? I guess a lot of times, it lands in the basket, not the fairway, so it's still a putter off the tee in that case?

Fair--regional wind conditions probably make a big difference in our assessment. In Vermont, I really only play one course where wind is an issue throughout a round (Fox Run), and there its usually photon -> envy/zone for most of the holes. I think my new craves do great in the wind for a neutral/straight disc (with the flat top I think they outperform similar discs in the class like beefy leopards, fds etc), but we probably have different ideas of windy.

In calm conditions, my 2nd run Hokum is very close to a PP plasma in flight, and very different from a relay. 1st run Hokum is much closer to a relay (but its also weird and squirrelly, relays have a smooth "gyro-y" turn even when overpowered, that run of craves just burns).

Forgot to include--100% agree that PP is the best crave, but for me the current crave makes a good (available) back-up

Agree on the fr Hokoms being more squirrelly than the Relays.

And yeah, TX wind is no joke, and my PP Craves tended to handle it much better than the current Hokoms. They're fine for calmer conditions, but when the wind picks up, I pretty much just throw my Wrath or Resistor now.

You are absolutely right. I love it! Missed you round here haha.

The PP craves were straight flying beef. I haven't thrown the new ones, I got a couple for wind resistance after playing/winning a doubles tourney in Vancouver and getting hammered by the wind. I never really got the turny line shaping vibe others were talking about, more like straight laser. I went to lightweight domey fission volts they fly closer to my PP volts but 8g lighter. I think if I had more power I would have had better results, I moved towards Volts after Wolfey threw my crave way better than I can up #24. :D it was just one of those discs I packed but didn't throw often. The volt gets more air time since I can bend it better.

I sent Streets my cosmic volt, I owed him one. Then I got a cosmic 174 plasma same colours in my gyropalooza box haha which I sold to my buddy.

Thanks! I missed being around. Been a crazy hectic few years, especially with the pandemic. I know a lot of people started playing, but I changed careers and spent a lot of time buried in code learning to be a developer, so barely had time to think about dg, let alone get out and play. Finally settled now, so hopefully I can get back into it more consistently and get some of my distance back.

Fwiw....
"Reconditioning" a mold to fit a new mold doesn't mean anything about making a new mold, or altering the molding surfaces in the slightest.

I'm sure all they had to do was alter an ejection knockout pattern, maybe tweak a sprue radius, sprue bushing, maybe change out some water fittings. I think maybe they added some air poppets. Nothing major at all, and nothing that affected the shape of the discs at all. I listened to the lab report on what was going on, and based on my considerable experience in the field, I had a pretty good understanding as to what they are saying.

The differences in the discs are 99% caused by new processes on new machines. Nothing from actually retooling a mold.