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-   -   Brodie Smith PDGA #128378 (https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135632)

wolfmandragon 02-21-2020 10:51 PM

Yeah, there is a reason, actually several, that I will not give the PDGA any of my money.

Could I run it any better? No, not my skill set.
Could I lawyer up a better set of rules? Darn right, I bloody well could.

Hampstead 02-21-2020 10:51 PM

Weema/Brodie next Champs vs Chumps

wolfmandragon 02-21-2020 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hampstead (Post 3552367)
Weema/Brodie next Champs vs Chumps

I'd watch it.

mizunodave 02-21-2020 10:58 PM

Oh. Yeah, now that you mention it there is no way in hell Brodie isn't in a Champs vs Chumps in the near future.

I do think he will be knocking on the door of 1000 by the end of the year.

brutalbrutus 02-21-2020 11:04 PM

I think its a good sign that he is already trying new(better) footwork. Otherwise, you might see what normally happens to players when they start trying to get better. You take a few steps back before you start seeing positive results on the course. This way, he is setting himself up to be more successful by learning the proper technique as he is learning the game and its a lot easier breaking bad habits early in your career than later.

Btw, anyone else notice the Paul style back foot grinding on his putting routine? lol

wolfmandragon 02-21-2020 11:25 PM

There are multiple run up styles that are "correct". The X step is not the end all be all.

With his very tall frame, Brodie may be served better with a scissor step over the X step.

Titan037 02-22-2020 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brutalbrutus (Post 3552380)
I think its a good sign that he is already trying new(better) footwork. Otherwise, you might see what normally happens to players when they start trying to get better. You take a few steps back before you start seeing positive results on the course. This way, he is setting himself up to be more successful by learning the proper technique as he is learning the game and its a lot easier breaking bad habits early in your career than later.

Btw, anyone else notice the Paul style back foot grinding on his putting routine? lol

Yeah I do it too, helps to remember to really push off that back leg and to make sure you have a firm grip in the ground with that foot.

Titan037 02-22-2020 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfmandragon (Post 3552393)
There are multiple run up styles that are "correct". The X step is not the end all be all.

With his very tall frame, Brodie may be served better with a scissor step over the X step.

I mean philo is pretty tall, why would an x step be good for everyone else except Brodie?

wolfmandragon 02-22-2020 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titan037 (Post 3552410)
I mean philo is pretty tall, why would an x step be good for everyone else except Brodie?

Its not. Look at many of the Europeans. Look at Feldburg. Look at Cam Todd, look at A.J..

None of those use the X step. The X step optimizes power over accuracy. Brodie has all the power he needs on anything other than a ball golf course. He had both the fast twitch muscles and the wing span to throw pro level distance from a stand still.

Why would he need to optimize power over accuracy on his run up?

drk_evns 02-22-2020 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfmandragon (Post 3552411)
Its not. Look at many of the Europeans. Look at Feldburg. Look at Cam Todd, look at A.J..

None of those use the X step. The X step optimizes power over accuracy. Brodie has all the power he needs on anything other than a ball golf course. He had both the fast twitch muscles and the wing span to throw pro level distance from a stand still.

Why would he need to optimize power over accuracy on his run up?

uhhh... all of those guys use the x-step.

I can't think of any examples of current pros that don't.

wolfmandragon 02-22-2020 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drk_evns (Post 3552446)
uhhh... all of those guys use the x-step.

I can't think of any examples of current pros that don't.


Avery turns his back totally to the target and his last step is directly toward the target.

Feldburg looks like he is going to use the X step, but on his second step he lines his hip to the target and hops into the shot.

Cam Todd's last step is a high scissor step.

As for the Europeans, I cannot remember the Swedish and Finnish names.

I threw Swedish style(modeled after Feldburg) for a few years. There is almost no way to make an X step work with it. One either has to scissor step or or hop into the shot. To create power with the arm bar, the body has to be moving in pretty straight line. The hips still have to rotate fully, that's where the hop comes in.

Feldburg teaches the X step, but watch the slow mos of his shots. He is moving very linearly.

One thing the backwards run up, X step, scissor step and crow hop all have in common us that the hips go into deep rotation to where the strong side butt cheek is facing the target right before the 'pull' starts. That's really all that matters. How one get there is up to the player and the shot needed.

Sorry for the disassociated ramble.

drk_evns 02-22-2020 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfmandragon (Post 3552453)
Avery turns his back totally to the target and his last step is directly toward the target.

Feldburg looks like he is going to use the X step, but on his second step he lines his hip to the target and hops into the shot.

Cam Todd's last step is a high scissor step.

As for the Europeans, I cannot remember the Swedish and Finnish names.

I threw Swedish style(modeled after Feldburg) for a few years. There is almost no way to make an X step work with it. One either has to scissor step or or hop into the shot. To create power with the arm bar, the body has to be moving in pretty straight line. The hips still have to rotate fully, that's where the hop comes in.

Feldburg teaches the X step, but watch the slow mos of his shots. He is moving very linearly.

One thing the backwards run up, X step, scissor step and crow hop all have in common us that the hips go into deep rotation to where the strong side butt cheek is facing the target right before the 'pull' starts. That's really all that matters. How one get there is up to the player and the shot needed.

Sorry for the disassociated ramble.

I'm not sure you understand what an x-step is? Can you give me one video of a pro not doing an x-step on a drive? I've watched countless videos of the players you've mentioned and all use an x-step.

Scissor step seems to be something different to you but I'm not sure that it is.

If your left foot crosses behind your plant foot in the drive, you're doing an x-step.

wims 02-22-2020 12:15 PM

I guess he means that little hop like what Steve Brinster does in this video. He doesn't properly cross his legs in the x-step
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vhzIp2lyI4&t=10s

wolfmandragon 02-22-2020 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drk_evns (Post 3552466)

....
If your left foot crosses behind your plant foot in the drive, you're doing an x-step.

No, you are not. An X step is very specific. In all run ups, the weak foot crosses behind the strong foot. Body mechanics demand this, it is not optional.

In an X Step, the feet move off line in an X pattern whilst the body stays, mostly, on the line, with the disc staying in one spot in the air until the pull is started. Bent arm throwers will move the disc off line a bit, but other than that, theirs is the same as a full reach back.

If one are not doing all of the above, then it is not an X Step.

In a scissor step, the weak foot 'sweeps' inline, where the X step the weak foot steps off line. To get the hips engaged, the scissor step's weak foot must penetrate deeper towards the target than what the X step has to..

In a backwards run up, one turns their back towards the target before the weak foot steps through.

In a crow hop, the weak foot passes behind the strong foot whilst the strong foot is in the air.

All 4 run ups start the same and end the same, it is how the body transitions through the movement is what makes the run ups different.

This needs to be it's own thread; I probably should have prerubed myself, it seems that this has already been argued before.

drk_evns 02-22-2020 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfmandragon (Post 3552481)
No, you are not. An X step is very specific. In all run ups, the weak foot crosses behind the strong foot. Body mechanics demand this, it is not optional.

In an X Step, the feet move off line in an X pattern whilst the body stays, mostly, on the line, with the disc staying in one spot in the air until the pull is started. Bent arm throwers will move the disc off line a bit, but other than that, theirs is the same as a full reach back.

If one are not doing all of the above, then it is not an X Step.

In a scissor step, the weak foot 'sweeps' inline, where the X step the weak foot steps off line. To get the hips engaged, the scissor step's weak foot must penetrate deeper towards the target than what the X step has to..

In a backwards run up, one turns their back towards the target before the weak foot steps through.

In a crow hop, the weak foot passes behind the strong foot whilst the strong foot is in the air.

All 4 run ups start the same and end the same, it is how the body transitions through the movement is what makes the run ups different.

This needs to be it's own thread; I probably should have prerubed myself, it seems that this has already been argued before.



Iíve never heard this before. Did you invent these terms?

swhite 02-22-2020 12:47 PM

I guess I am also confused about what exactly constitutes an x-step.

I have always thought that Feldberg uses an x-step in his drives, such as the one in the video below, but what do I know.


drk_evns 02-22-2020 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swhite (Post 3552494)
I guess I am also confused about what exactly constitutes an x-step.

I have always thought that Feldberg uses an x-step in his drives, such as the one in the video below, but what do I know.




Iíve never heard someone use those terms and it sort of sounds like made up forum-speak.

Iím not sure, but thatís what it sounds like. I would call ALL of those and x-step.

Iíve spoken at length about form with many many people and never heard anyone use those terms or posit that feldberg or Avery Jenkins donít do an x-step.

wolfmandragon 02-22-2020 01:12 PM

I realize that I am somewhat pendantic in using terminology precisely; it irritates my friends as well. In above video, you can see his feet pass in the air. This was one of the videos that I use to loop over and over learning the Swedish style.

It was he that spoke of using, as I think he called it, the pro hop in one of his very early videos. In Baseball, we called it a crow hop... same thing, but I should have used his term.

All these terms have been used on this forum. I did not create them.

drk_evns 02-22-2020 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfmandragon (Post 3552501)
I realize that I am somewhat pendantic in using terminology precisely; it irritates my friends as well. In above video, you can see his feet pass in the air. This was one of the videos that I use to loop over and over learning the Swedish style.

It was he that spoke of using, as I think he called it, the pro hop in one of his very early videos. In Baseball, we called it a crow hop... same thing, but I should have used his term.


I think those are all adjectives they use to describe an x-step, not official definitions that make them specifically NOT an x-step.

Swedish throwers use more of a pendulum motion in the arms, but the x-step is consistent among all top throwers.

There are different ways to achieve an x-step. Individual body type and form intricacies can look different, but the trail foot crossing behind the plant foot in the stride equals x-step.

I havenít seen anyone other than you make this claim.

wolfmandragon 02-22-2020 02:06 PM

Last prerube.. unfortually I have non fun stuff I have to go do.
Both following are from before I joined the forum. Perhaps it was over on DGR where someone broke down the difference between an X step and a scissor step. Some of my info came from tutorial videos; much harder to search for those.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarel (Post 2068008)
stokely my fav to watch on vid that scissor step is what i use most of the time

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smigles (Post 812469)
The idea behind the x step and the hop is more or less the same, the only difference is what you are more comfortable with. I do a 4 step X-step off the tee, a 3 step x-step when I need to hit the lie exactly ( marker ), and of course also throw from a standstill when I dont have room for a runup.


drk_evns 02-22-2020 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfmandragon (Post 3552514)
Last prerube.. unfortually I have non fun stuff I have to go do.
Both following are from before I joined the forum. Perhaps it was over on DGR where someone broke down the difference between an X step and a scissor step. Some of my info came from tutorial videos; much harder to search for those.



Like I said, forum speak.

wolfmandragon 02-22-2020 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drk_evns (Post 3552515)
Like I said, forum speak.

From what I can tell, several of the terms we use came from Blake over on DGR. Someone had to make up the terms; as far as I know, no one has gotten a divine disc golf lexicon from a burning bush.

drk_evns 02-22-2020 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfmandragon (Post 3552517)
From what I can tell, several of the terms we use came from Blake over on DGR. Someone had to make up the terms; as far as I know, no one has gotten a divine disc golf lexicon from a burning bush.



There are terms people on forum invent to attempt to better communicate their ideas and then there are terms that professionals and the wider disc golf community uses. They may or may not be invented by forums, but to be honest I think a lot of it can be attributed to Dave Dunipace.

davetherocketguy 02-22-2020 09:14 PM

Am I the only one rolling their eyes so hard they can see their brain?

Casey 1988 02-22-2020 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drk_evns (Post 3552519)
There are terms people on forum invent to attempt to better communicate their ideas and then there are terms that professionals and the wider disc golf community uses. They may or may not be invented by forums, but to be honest I think a lot of it can be attributed to Dave Dunipace.

Others are attributed to players like Tom Monroe and Scott Stokely with the videos they did in the mid to late 1990's on disc golf, the Stable term I believe came from Scott where the disc holds a line. It just it took a long time for the term Stable to mean that and not Stable as in a OS disc as some players not from where the game started in early years these pockets were saying Disc is stable for term of an OS disc well into the 2000's as places like DGR and DGCR were not a thing yet until the mid 2000's to help codify terms to what they are now. Terms are even more codified now with the advent of the tournaments on YouTube and elsewhere in the 2010's with pros using the terms as the commentators. Only Term I hate that the YouTube tournament announcers made was The comebacker, I like The comeback, that is what I heard people say and South Dakota people born here or have lived in South Dakota a long time sometimes use pert near.

elmexdela 02-22-2020 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davetherocketguy (Post 3552610)
Am I the only one rolling their eyes so hard they can see their brain?

i think youre the only one who read all that

Hampstead 02-22-2020 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elmexdela (Post 3552618)
i think youre the only one who read all that

I put the over/under of people who read all that at 10 and easily take the under.

davetherocketguy 02-22-2020 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elmexdela (Post 3552618)
i think youre the only one who read all that

lol you assume too much. I think glanced is more accurate.

wolfhaley 02-22-2020 11:34 PM

I read all of that. Probably should've scissor skimmed over it though.

jakebake91 02-23-2020 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elmexdela (Post 3552618)
i think youre the only one who read all that

Nope. I actually read it all. And my eyes hurt from rolling......lol

Flick Maniac 02-24-2020 05:37 AM

You should never round with your eyes. You get much more eye snap if you pull through in a straight line.

drk_evns 02-24-2020 10:48 AM

Disc golf terminology, where it was created, and how it was solidified is something I think would be a valuable discussion on a disc golf forum. It's very interesting to me!

Sorry your eyes hurt. Maybe if you focus on rolling them a bit less it'll make it easier to read.

bananas1023 02-25-2020 02:30 AM

looks like brodie registered for a tournament. Ron Russell Roofing presents 2020 Jacksonville Open - Pros at the end of march.

brutalbrutus 02-25-2020 03:32 AM

Makes sense. The McBeths are also playing that event while they're in Florida after TDTM, instead of going back and forth for Texas States.

turbosteve 02-25-2020 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bananas1023 (Post 3553262)
looks like brodie registered for a tournament. Ron Russell Roofing presents 2020 Jacksonville Open - Pros at the end of march.

Interestingly that tournament is sponsored by a former Discraft sponsored world champion

DiscFifty 02-25-2020 08:04 AM

hmm... he's still registered as AM but playing Open in those 2 new events. I wonder if he cashes, he accepts it.

Jugular 02-25-2020 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscFifty (Post 3553281)
hmm... he's still registered as AM but playing Open in those 2 new events. I wonder if he cashes, he accepts it.

Why wouldn't he?

Jay Dub 02-25-2020 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jugular (Post 3553307)
Why wouldn't he?

He's not in this for the money....wait, yes he is. :popcorn:

Nick Pacific 02-25-2020 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Dub (Post 3553309)
He's not in this for the money....wait, yes he is. :popcorn:

I'd bet anything he'd kill it in a traditional sales and marketing role in corporate America, if anything this disc golf adventure is a pay cut so far.

Jay Dub 02-25-2020 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Pacific (Post 3553353)
I'd bet anything he'd kill it in a traditional sales and marketing role in corporate America, if anything this disc golf adventure is a pay cut so far.

I think it will always be a pay cut for him, he's too old to do Ultimate for a living so this might be all he has left in disc sports. If he does not become a top player (which I believe he won't) then the disc golf career will be only 2-3 years long before he moves on.


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