Disc Golf Course Review

Disc Golf Course Review (https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/index.php)
-   Bags / Carts / Straps / Tags (https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=52)
-   -   SQUATCH Legend! (https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140292)

ThrowBot 09-30-2021 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarkeyPuck (Post 3758000)
This is a bit ingenuous from a guy who’s owned 2 Pound bags. I know why you posted this, but come on.

Oh dang, I forgot to use the sarcasm font!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...e_non-free.png

Aside from petty jest, I do think it's worthwhile to get the facts straight. The claim that the Squatch is a "stitch for stitch copy" of the Octo is obviously false, in ways that are easy to demonstrate. My goal is to get the conversation back to things that are actually truthful.

So if not a 100% copy, how much of the design is stolen? If the inner structure is truly copied, then that's a big deal. One of the Octothorpe's best and distinguishing features (in my opinion) is the ergonomics of how it carries the weight. That's much more important to me than the layout of the auxiliary pockets...but tougher to see in photos online!

But is it true that the structural design of the Squatch is ripped off? The only person I see making that claim is Mr. Stitch4stitch, who has historically had a very tenuous relationship with facts. That's not to say that the claim is necessarily false. I'd be interested if anyone more credible is of the same opinion.

ODRB 09-30-2021 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThrowBot (Post 3758030)

The inner structure, many of the individual panel cuts, many of the stich line layouts, etc., have been directly copied. These guys literally, and I mean that literally, bought an Octo and then just a couple short months later posted pictures of their first production run.

So yeah, stitch for stitch (not literally) copy, then they moved a couple pockets around a flipped a zipper backwards. And yeah, not stitch for stitch (literally), because they're not going to have the same quality controls for stitching, or anything else.

But stitch for stich in that they bought an Octothorpe, took it apart stitch by stitch and piece by piece, and used it to "design" their knock off.

You will see.

ODRB 09-30-2021 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODRB (Post 3757685)
This bag . . . is a panel by panel, stitch by stitch copy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThrowBot (Post 3758030)
The claim that the Squatch is a "stitch for stitch copy" of the Octo is obviously false, in ways that are easy to demonstrate. My goal is to get the conversation back to things that are actually truthful.

Get your facts truthier. And don't muddy this up with our personal squabbles.

It is obviously not a stitch for stitch copy. And no one used that phrase, except you.

It was copied stitch by stitch, when these guys bought an Octothorpe, took it apart stitch by stitch, and traced the panels.

klodkrawler05 09-30-2021 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODRB (Post 3758027)
They are not using the same materials. There are many versions and quality variations between different brands of Cordura denier nylon. Same for zippers. Same for webbing. So, again, not the same.

You keep saying that, and yet, I cannot find anything to point to that being true. Cordura Denier Nylon fabric is a name brand fabric produced by single company. There are other fabrics that use 300,500,1000 denier nylon, but they are not Cordura. Much the same way there are many different colas but they're not all Coke.
The same goes for zippers, there are only so many models of YKK zipper, and even fewer that are weatherproof and suitable for a disc golf bag.

It's odd that you are using this as an argument against the Squatch, when it's actually one of the few similarities the bags actually share.

Stardoggy 09-30-2021 04:17 PM

Soooo....where can I get one?

Emoney 09-30-2021 04:20 PM

So the Pound site doesn't say anything about Warranty transfers. Squatch has the SAME lifetime warranty, but only for the original purchaser.

Pound:

We*guarantee all of our packs against defects in materials and workmanship for the lifetime of every pack.*

Squatch:

GUARANTEED FOR A LIFETIME. PERIOD.


We will repair or replace, at our discretion, any bag that we deem as defective with regards to materials and workmanship.**

Emoney 09-30-2021 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stardoggy (Post 3758038)
Soooo....where can I get one?

Pre orders are up and ready on the site link in the OP

ODRB 09-30-2021 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klodkrawler05 (Post 3758037)
You keep saying that, and yet, I cannot find anything to point to that being true. Cordura Denier Nylon fabric is a name brand fabric produced by single company. There are other fabrics that use 300,500,1000 denier nylon, but they are not Cordura. Much the same way there are many different colas but they're not all Coke.
The same goes for zippers, there are only so many models of YKK zipper, and even fewer that are weatherproof and suitable for a disc golf bag.

It's odd that you are using this as an argument against the Squatch, when it's actually one of the few similarities the bags actually share.

Cordura is a process, licensed to many manufacturers who create materials of wildly different quality under the licensed "Cordura TM" badge (https://www.cordura.com/en/mills/mill-locator). Ask a bag manufacturer if they are willing to accept any Cordura from any mill. They won't say yes.

Zippers, you're not wrong--YKK means YKK. And yet Squatch looks like it only uses the smaller sizes. No larger size zippers on high stress openings.

Do you really see "few similarities"?

Countchunkula 09-30-2021 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakebake91 (Post 3758028)
Having spent my lifetime in American manufacturing, I hear this a lot.

But yet, I've never had to look for a job. Even in the middle of a pandemic, I walked out of one job and had another as soon as I wanted it.

The paper mill I started working at 13 years ago has had a permanent help wanted sign in their yard since before they hired me. It hasn't moved.

Are their fewer manufacturing jobs stateside than there were decades ago? I won't argue that there isn't. However, there are certainly way less people willing to work those jobs these days too.

Look up the stats on the American manufacturing skills gaps. It's remarkable.


/endrant


Sorry. Got us off track here.....

Some products have less of a benefit from moving offshore. Something where labor is a tiny share of total cost won't have a big benefit from moving production to a low labor cost country. For heavy/bulky/odd shaped products, increased freight and duty costs due to manufacturing overseas will eat up the labor savings.

Paper mill is most cost effective to locate near timber lands.

25 years ago, the company I work for made 100% of our products in the US with a largely US based supply chain. Now only 10% made in US and almost all of those components are sourced from overseas. It had to happen though. We lost nearly half of our business to Chinese knockoffs of our old designs. It was almost impossible to compete with Chinese companies that have very low labor costs, very low overhead, and were willing to make low single digit margins.

I'm an accountant. Long term, I expect my role will move overseas too (if I don't get replaced by an algorithm first).

ODRB 09-30-2021 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emoney (Post 3758039)
So the Pound site doesn't say anything about Warranty transfers.

Pound warranty travels with the bag. No registration.

Squatch ain't the same: "We will repair or replace, at our discretion, any bag that we deem as defective with regards to materials and workmanship. This warranty is valid to the original owner, who must register their purchase with us within 90 days."

There are plenty of bag manufacturers making quality disc golf bags of their own designs in that Squatch price range.

If you guys want to support these knock-off artists instead, cool. Go ahead.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:32 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.