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-   -   SQUATCH Legend! (https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140292)

feelinlucky 09-27-2021 09:42 PM

SQUATCH Legend!
 
Anyone thinking about ordering one of these, the specs are pretty nice im trying to decide between this and the Combat Ranger.

https://squatchdiscgolf.com/

jdm0514 09-27-2021 10:01 PM

Umm Pound copycat?

Emoney 09-28-2021 12:00 AM

Half the price of a Pound...same materials...you should get a Squatch!

They have a bag walkthrough on FB. Looks pretty good...a little floppy but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I think they should have added a little more storage space and a little less disc compacity, but that's a minor gripe.

I would be curious to see the integrity of the bag without a full load of discs in the main pocket...like 18 instead of 24

DanJon 09-28-2021 04:52 PM

So they sent a Pound Bag overseas and said "make this ".

GripEnemy 09-28-2021 05:45 PM

Black Gorilla Boy Simian feels...

SSquirrel 09-28-2021 10:06 PM

Yeah it screams Octothorpe clone. Doth Savek just did an unboxing. Haven't watched it yet, but I'm sure we will get the usual thorough take here or eventually.

Emoney 09-28-2021 10:43 PM

On second look at Saveks review, it looks to have good storage and rigidity.

This should be a popular bag for sure...price is right, materials are great, and Grip just had a lackluster release.

I have two Voodoo spinal tap 3 and will be ordering a Zuca Transit soon....so I'm set for life.

With the amount of disc golfers tripling....the market is ripe for a mid priced premium bag.

Grip did own this space but looks like Squatch will be direct competition.

*the Squatch phone pocket should be stretchy or bigger.

SSquirrel 09-28-2021 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emoney (Post 3757545)
On second look at Saveks review, it looks to have good storage and rigidity.

This should be a popular bag for sure...price is right, materials are great, and Grip just had a lackluster release.

I have two Voodoo spinal tap 3 and will be ordering a Zuca Transit soon....so I'm set for life.

With the amount of disc golfers tripling....the market is ripe for a mid priced premium bag.

Grip did own this space but looks like Squatch will be direct competition.

*the Squatch phone pocket should be stretchy or bigger.

Yeah it was a good first look at the bag. I got a Core Pro recently and feel a transit likely in my eventual future, so not really in the market personally. I have a Juju and Karma from Voodoo, love those but needed a backpack bc of back issues

ODRB 09-29-2021 01:00 PM

This bag is a total ripoff. It is a panel by panel, stitch by stitch copy.

This guy is a thief. Period. (It isn't the typical Chinese knock-off brand either--it is US owned thieves who sent a Pound bag to a factory in China and said "Knock this off, please.")

No one should support this brand until they develop their own product.

Competition is healthy. Theft shouldn't be rewarded.

Countchunkula 09-29-2021 01:45 PM

^Did Pound patent their design? If not, while still shady, you can't call this theft.

Ln108DD2 09-29-2021 02:22 PM

This sounds similar to the guys who ripped off the Gorilla Boy Simian a few years ago.

ODRB 09-29-2021 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Countchunkula (Post 3757694)
^Did Pound patent their design? If not, while still shady, you can't call this theft.

Clearly, you are not a patent/IP lawyer.

Theft is theft. Violation of trade dress is theft. Stealing your car, even if it isn't registered or insured, is still theft.

Look at the Squatch design. Even though there is no mini pocket, there are still the diagonal stitching lines where Pound puts their mini pocket.

It is egregious. It is theft. Plain and simple.

Emoney 09-29-2021 03:52 PM

They are all backpacks....to claim theft is dumb...

Pound didn't copy parts of any prior DG or school backpack? Cmon.

Squatch looks dope...buy it

ODRB 09-29-2021 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emoney (Post 3757753)
They are all backpacks....to claim theft is dumb...

Pound didn't copy parts of any prior DG or school backpack? Cmon.

Squatch looks dope...buy it

This is dumb, and not how trade protections (or basic decency) works.

Most every car has 4 wheels, a steering wheel, seats, wipers, etc. You can design another car around those shared basics without simply sending a Ferrari to a Chinese factory and asking them to build a knockoff.

Same goes here.

It's theft. And shady. And sad to think anyone in the DG community will support it.

ODRB 09-29-2021 04:13 PM

Here's the saddest part, from Squatch's own website:

"My father and I found disc golf in 2016 and became immediately obsessed. After playing for a couple of years we started to notice our disc golf bags were falling apart, and they lacked many of the features we felt should be standard for any disc golf bag. So with our combined experience designing and manufacturing custom bags and cases for major companies all over the world, we set out to use those skills and create the best disc golf backpack on the planet. Every bag we make is designed with you in mind. Our passion for the sport is matched only by our passion for creating legendary products for our customers."

"With my background in marketing, and his 20+ years of experience in custom case design and manufacturing, one day a light bulb just went off during a round and we realized that we could create something so much better for disc golfers and help propel the sport forward. After a few months of talking it over and planning, we just decided to send it, and thus Squatch was born."

This knockoff is the best they could do after years of experience designing bags and marketing?

Nope, it ought to read "My dad knew some folks at a factory in China, and I made a website...."

Pretty sure what they mean by "we just decided to send it..." is "we bought a Pound bag and just decided to send it to a factory in China."


Eff these guys.

ThrowBot 09-29-2021 05:16 PM

Bruh, you blind? Look at the zipper flap on top of the putter quiver. It is sewn to the body of the bag on the FRONT of the bag. Pound sews that flap to the BACK of the bag. Totally opposite and not a ripoff.

Looking at the front of the bag, the Squatch does not have a bungee or a mini slot. The Pound Octothorpe has both of those features on the front. So it's like an entirely different design.

The flap-closure phone pocket on the Squatch is unique, not similar to any of the pockets on the Octo. Zero theft.

Straps are different, too. Octothorpe straps have webbing all the way up that connects to the top of the bag's body. The webbing on the Squatch strap ends a few inches above the sternum buckle. So that's a different strap design, or else they ran out of webbing.

How can the Squatch cooler insert be "stolen" from the Pound design? The Pound cooler insert doesn't even have a top closure!

So in summary: it's a completely different frolf pack. Not at all a direct and shameless copy of the Pound bag.

Countchunkula 09-29-2021 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODRB (Post 3757747)
Clearly, you are not a patent/IP lawyer.

Theft is theft. Violation of trade dress is theft. Stealing your car, even if it isn't registered or insured, is still theft.

Look at the Squatch design. Even though there is no mini pocket, there are still the diagonal stitching lines where Pound puts their mini pocket.

It is egregious. It is theft. Plain and simple.

Agreed. I'm not. I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night though.:p

I think we agree that what Squatch is doing is wrong. I think you're reaching a bit here though. Not sure how the car example is at all relevant.

Emoney 09-29-2021 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThrowBot (Post 3757782)
Bruh, you blind? Look at the zipper flap on top of the putter quiver. It is sewn to the body of the bag on the FRONT of the bag. Pound sews that flap to the BACK of the bag. Totally opposite and not a ripoff.

Looking at the front of the bag, the Squatch does not have a bungee or a mini slot. The Pound Octothorpe has both of those features on the front. So it's like an entirely different design.

The flap-closure phone pocket on the Squatch is unique, not similar to any of the pockets on the Octo. Zero theft.

Straps are different, too. Octothorpe straps have webbing all the way up that connects to the top of the bag's body. The webbing on the Squatch strap ends a few inches above the sternum buckle. So that's a different strap design, or else they ran out of webbing.

How can the Squatch cooler insert be "stolen" from the Pound design? The Pound cooler insert doesn't even have a top closure!

So in summary: it's a completely different frolf pack. Not at all a direct and shameless copy of the Pound bag.

No! (stomps feet) it's theft! Call the police

SSquirrel 09-29-2021 11:23 PM

Doth Savek addressed it in the video and showed examples where things were different, even does a side by side comparison. It definitely isnít a panel for panel clone. It may definitely be a movie soundtrack featuring some from and inspired by the film tho.

:)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ThrowBot 09-30-2021 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODRB (Post 3757685)
It is a panel by panel, stitch by stitch copy.

:popcorn:

ODRB 09-30-2021 12:14 PM

If you deconstruct one, you will see that it is a structural clone. Sure, they changed up some pockets etc., and cheaped out on things like webbing and material quality (not all zippers or denier nylon is the same). But that isn't what makes the bag work--that stuff they lifted.

You will see. You will see.

TurnedOver 09-30-2021 12:40 PM

It's good for us that someone is offering a more affordable Pound style bag.

ODRB 09-30-2021 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurnedOver (Post 3757967)
It's good for us that someone is offering a more affordable Pound style bag.

If we use Napster, no one will ever have to pay creators for their music ever again!

Vote with your wallets.

A company dedicated to the sport, to integrity, and to its customers.

Or a company that LITERALLY bought a Pound bag, took it apart, and had a Chinese factory knock it off. I wish Squatch all the best, as soon as they design their own product.

chevis 09-30-2021 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODRB (Post 3757977)
If we use Napster, no one will ever have to pay creators for their music ever again!

Vote with your wallets.

A company dedicated to the sport, to integrity, and to its customers.

i really wish capitalism works this way, but most of the time customers & producers only see dollar signs.

HarkeyPuck 09-30-2021 02:26 PM

Pound is made in USA, by disc golf enthusiasts. Plus Lifetime warranty. Thatís enough for me to pay extra over a bag copied and made overseas in China.

Buying the cheapest version made overseas is a big reason there are almost no manufacturing jobs in the states anymore.

HarkeyPuck 09-30-2021 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThrowBot (Post 3757782)
Bruh, you blind? Look at the zipper flap on top of the putter quiver. It is sewn to the body of the bag on the FRONT of the bag. Pound sews that flap to the BACK of the bag. Totally opposite and not a ripoff.

Looking at the front of the bag, the Squatch does not have a bungee or a mini slot. The Pound Octothorpe has both of those features on the front. So it's like an entirely different design.

The flap-closure phone pocket on the Squatch is unique, not similar to any of the pockets on the Octo. Zero theft.

Straps are different, too. Octothorpe straps have webbing all the way up that connects to the top of the bag's body. The webbing on the Squatch strap ends a few inches above the sternum buckle. So that's a different strap design, or else they ran out of webbing.

How can the Squatch cooler insert be "stolen" from the Pound design? The Pound cooler insert doesn't even have a top closure!

So in summary: it's a completely different frolf pack. Not at all a direct and shameless copy of the Pound bag.

This is a bit ingenuous from a guy who’s owned 2 Pound bags. I know why you posted this, but come on.

Emoney 09-30-2021 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarkeyPuck (Post 3757999)
Pound is made in USA, by disc golf enthusiasts. Plus Lifetime warranty. That’s enough for me to pay extra over a bag copied and made overseas in China.

Buying the cheapest version made overseas is a big reason there are almost no manufacturing jobs in the states anymore.

Squatch also has lifetime warranty. The Pound bag is not "a little extra", it's double the price of a Squatch...with the same materials.

In this case I don't feel the "China vs U.S" is the main problem.... the problem is a $500 backpack...makes it very easy to undercut.

Countchunkula 09-30-2021 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarkeyPuck (Post 3757999)
Pound is made in USA, by disc golf enthusiasts. Plus Lifetime warranty. Thatís enough for me to pay extra over a bag copied and made overseas in China.

Buying the cheapest version made overseas is a big reason there are almost no manufacturing jobs in the states anymore.

Yep it's a race to the bottom. You can (and should) blame Walmart and Amazon, but American consumers also played a part. Too good to be true is too good to be true.

ODRB 09-30-2021 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emoney (Post 3758023)
Squatch also has lifetime warranty. The Pound bag is not "a little extra", it's double the price of a Squatch...with the same materials.

Squatch does not have a lifetime warranty. It might be labelled a lifetime warranty, but it's actually an original owner, if properly registered, and subject to limitations warranty. So, not the same.

They are not using the same materials. There are many versions and quality variations between different brands of Cordura denier nylon. Same for zippers. Same for webbing. So, again, not the same.

I'm all for Squatch designing a product and bringing it to market at a lower price. You know, like Grip does. And Upper Park. And others. Several others.

Maybe someday Squatch will do that. Until then, eff these guys.

jakebake91 09-30-2021 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarkeyPuck (Post 3757999)

Buying the cheapest version made overseas is a big reason there are almost no manufacturing jobs in the states anymore.

Having spent my lifetime in American manufacturing, I hear this a lot.

But yet, I've never had to look for a job. Even in the middle of a pandemic, I walked out of one job and had another as soon as I wanted it.

The paper mill I started working at 13 years ago has had a permanent help wanted sign in their yard since before they hired me. It hasn't moved.

Are their fewer manufacturing jobs stateside than there were decades ago? I won't argue that there isn't. However, there are certainly way less people willing to work those jobs these days too.

Look up the stats on the American manufacturing skills gaps. It's remarkable.


/endrant


Sorry. Got us off track here.....

ThrowBot 09-30-2021 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarkeyPuck (Post 3758000)
This is a bit ingenuous from a guy whoís owned 2 Pound bags. I know why you posted this, but come on.

Oh dang, I forgot to use the sarcasm font!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...e_non-free.png

Aside from petty jest, I do think it's worthwhile to get the facts straight. The claim that the Squatch is a "stitch for stitch copy" of the Octo is obviously false, in ways that are easy to demonstrate. My goal is to get the conversation back to things that are actually truthful.

So if not a 100% copy, how much of the design is stolen? If the inner structure is truly copied, then that's a big deal. One of the Octothorpe's best and distinguishing features (in my opinion) is the ergonomics of how it carries the weight. That's much more important to me than the layout of the auxiliary pockets...but tougher to see in photos online!

But is it true that the structural design of the Squatch is ripped off? The only person I see making that claim is Mr. Stitch4stitch, who has historically had a very tenuous relationship with facts. That's not to say that the claim is necessarily false. I'd be interested if anyone more credible is of the same opinion.

ODRB 09-30-2021 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThrowBot (Post 3758030)

The inner structure, many of the individual panel cuts, many of the stich line layouts, etc., have been directly copied. These guys literally, and I mean that literally, bought an Octo and then just a couple short months later posted pictures of their first production run.

So yeah, stitch for stitch (not literally) copy, then they moved a couple pockets around a flipped a zipper backwards. And yeah, not stitch for stitch (literally), because they're not going to have the same quality controls for stitching, or anything else.

But stitch for stich in that they bought an Octothorpe, took it apart stitch by stitch and piece by piece, and used it to "design" their knock off.

You will see.

ODRB 09-30-2021 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODRB (Post 3757685)
This bag . . . is a panel by panel, stitch by stitch copy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThrowBot (Post 3758030)
The claim that the Squatch is a "stitch for stitch copy" of the Octo is obviously false, in ways that are easy to demonstrate. My goal is to get the conversation back to things that are actually truthful.

Get your facts truthier. And don't muddy this up with our personal squabbles.

It is obviously not a stitch for stitch copy. And no one used that phrase, except you.

It was copied stitch by stitch, when these guys bought an Octothorpe, took it apart stitch by stitch, and traced the panels.

klodkrawler05 09-30-2021 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODRB (Post 3758027)
They are not using the same materials. There are many versions and quality variations between different brands of Cordura denier nylon. Same for zippers. Same for webbing. So, again, not the same.

You keep saying that, and yet, I cannot find anything to point to that being true. Cordura Denier Nylon fabric is a name brand fabric produced by single company. There are other fabrics that use 300,500,1000 denier nylon, but they are not Cordura. Much the same way there are many different colas but they're not all Coke.
The same goes for zippers, there are only so many models of YKK zipper, and even fewer that are weatherproof and suitable for a disc golf bag.

It's odd that you are using this as an argument against the Squatch, when it's actually one of the few similarities the bags actually share.

Stardoggy 09-30-2021 04:17 PM

Soooo....where can I get one?

Emoney 09-30-2021 04:20 PM

So the Pound site doesn't say anything about Warranty transfers. Squatch has the SAME lifetime warranty, but only for the original purchaser.

Pound:

We*guarantee all of our packs against defects in materials and workmanship for the lifetime of every pack.*

Squatch:

GUARANTEED FOR A LIFETIME. PERIOD.


We will repair or replace, at our discretion, any bag that we deem as defective with regards to materials and workmanship.**

Emoney 09-30-2021 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stardoggy (Post 3758038)
Soooo....where can I get one?

Pre orders are up and ready on the site link in the OP

ODRB 09-30-2021 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klodkrawler05 (Post 3758037)
You keep saying that, and yet, I cannot find anything to point to that being true. Cordura Denier Nylon fabric is a name brand fabric produced by single company. There are other fabrics that use 300,500,1000 denier nylon, but they are not Cordura. Much the same way there are many different colas but they're not all Coke.
The same goes for zippers, there are only so many models of YKK zipper, and even fewer that are weatherproof and suitable for a disc golf bag.

It's odd that you are using this as an argument against the Squatch, when it's actually one of the few similarities the bags actually share.

Cordura is a process, licensed to many manufacturers who create materials of wildly different quality under the licensed "Cordura TM" badge (https://www.cordura.com/en/mills/mill-locator). Ask a bag manufacturer if they are willing to accept any Cordura from any mill. They won't say yes.

Zippers, you're not wrong--YKK means YKK. And yet Squatch looks like it only uses the smaller sizes. No larger size zippers on high stress openings.

Do you really see "few similarities"?

Countchunkula 09-30-2021 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakebake91 (Post 3758028)
Having spent my lifetime in American manufacturing, I hear this a lot.

But yet, I've never had to look for a job. Even in the middle of a pandemic, I walked out of one job and had another as soon as I wanted it.

The paper mill I started working at 13 years ago has had a permanent help wanted sign in their yard since before they hired me. It hasn't moved.

Are their fewer manufacturing jobs stateside than there were decades ago? I won't argue that there isn't. However, there are certainly way less people willing to work those jobs these days too.

Look up the stats on the American manufacturing skills gaps. It's remarkable.


/endrant


Sorry. Got us off track here.....

Some products have less of a benefit from moving offshore. Something where labor is a tiny share of total cost won't have a big benefit from moving production to a low labor cost country. For heavy/bulky/odd shaped products, increased freight and duty costs due to manufacturing overseas will eat up the labor savings.

Paper mill is most cost effective to locate near timber lands.

25 years ago, the company I work for made 100% of our products in the US with a largely US based supply chain. Now only 10% made in US and almost all of those components are sourced from overseas. It had to happen though. We lost nearly half of our business to Chinese knockoffs of our old designs. It was almost impossible to compete with Chinese companies that have very low labor costs, very low overhead, and were willing to make low single digit margins.

I'm an accountant. Long term, I expect my role will move overseas too (if I don't get replaced by an algorithm first).

ODRB 09-30-2021 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emoney (Post 3758039)
So the Pound site doesn't say anything about Warranty transfers.

Pound warranty travels with the bag. No registration.

Squatch ain't the same: "We will repair or replace, at our discretion, any bag that we deem as defective with regards to materials and workmanship. This warranty is valid to the original owner, who must register their purchase with us within 90 days."

There are plenty of bag manufacturers making quality disc golf bags of their own designs in that Squatch price range.

If you guys want to support these knock-off artists instead, cool. Go ahead.


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