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Old 03-06-2013, 03:59 AM
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scarpfish scarpfish is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Brownbackistan
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Originally Posted by jenb View Post
I was curious to see if that was true, so I looked at all of DD's tournaments since January 1 2012, which are supposed to be trophy only in rec. I'm not sure if that's true of the events "presented by" or "sponsored by" DD, but I have included those events in my analysis for now. I excluded the one round challenges from my analysis, because there's a lot of volatility in ratings that could produce a false impression from a single round. I also excluded supertour events, as only PDGA members can play those. What I found was that, out of 26 events, an unrated player took the rec trophy home 11 times. That's not half the time, but it's pretty close (42%).
Considering the recreational division has probably the most volatile turnover and is usually the division that first timers choose when they start playing tournaments this isn't all that surprising.

Originally Posted by jenb View Post
As for those unrated players throwing advanced rated rounds, I saw five of those winners throw at least one round rated over 935 (i.e., 957, 954, 946, 939, and 939). So I think the perceptions held by the rec rated players who no longer attend DD tournaments are somewhat valid, and there is obviously still a problem that was not solved by making rec trophy only.
So what exactly is the criteria here that make this a DD problem? I see nothing in your analysis here that suggests this sort of thing doesn't also happen at non-DD events. The people who won't play their events because of this might as well stop playing tournaments altogether.

Originally Posted by jenb View Post
If anything, I think the perception of the problem is that it is worse, as there can now only be one "winner" in rec, and the players rated below 850 feel like they stand no chance at all.
Or you could take the optimist's position that everyone is a winner considering that their entire entry fee minus fees was pretty much returned to them in plastic.

Originally Posted by jenb View Post
As I've said before, I think the only way to really deal with the problem is to prevent unrated players from playing ratings protected divisions. TDs have the discretion to force non-PDGA members to play a different division, and I think that's the way to go. Unfortunately, the PDGA prevents TDs from denying entry to rec to new PDGA members who don't yet have a rating. In order to really address the issue effectively, that rule needs to be changed. However, a TD can still drastically reduce the perception of bagging by at least requiring non-PDGA members to play in a non-ratings protected division for which they are otherwise eligible.
This will never happen nor should it. The PDGA would be cutting their own throats by doing it. If a TD had told me at my first event as a PDGA member that I had to play Advanced and essentially donate to prove that I wasn't an advanced caliber player, I'd have never joined.

If people in the third level of Am division play are that concerned with fair and equitable distribution of prizes, even when minus a trophy, its about as fair and equitable as you can make it, they need to rethink their priorities a bit. There are ramifications to playing in the bottom division and they are really nothing that DD or the PDGA can solve. Its usually the cheapest entry fee and termed "recreational" for a reason.
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