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Old 03-28-2013, 04:35 PM
garublador garublador is offline
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Originally Posted by Dave242 View Post
Good to know I understand correctly......seriously: when I posted this I had a nagging feeling OAT might be referring more to the motion of the arm in the pull-through that the actual imparting of torque onto the disc on release.

That said, accidentally turning a disc over has almost everything to do with rolling the wrist (or leaning back or whatever it takes) to get the plane of the disc into an anhyzer position. It has almost nothing to do with rotational velocity on the disc around the front-to-back axis ("roll" in the airplane vernacular).
Throwing an anhyzer is totally different than a disc turning and burning from a hyzer. People with OAT problems will flip discs from a hyzer angle that would normally cause the disc not to flilp. So they can't possibly be both throwing hyzer and anhyzer, there must be some other force that's causing the disc to flip.

One of the main reasons OAT has very limited affect (other than the vastly lower proportional speed to its On-Axis velocity and forward velocity), is the gyroscopic effect of a spinning disc....especially one weighted mostly on the perimeter. If you have ever taken a bicycle wheel, held it by the axle and spun it, you will notice that it really resists any OAT (including any wobble induced onto it).
That's an argument for OAT being the problem. Notice how wide rimmed discs resist OAT way more than narrow rimmed discs. It's becasue of their greater angular momentum. If it were only a release angle issue then wide rimmed discs wouldn't resist the problem we're describing more than narrow rimmed discs.

The angular momentum of the disc is why the discs don't tumble end over end becasue of OAT, but that doesn't mean that it's so high that we can't overcome it. How can we be strong enough to get the disc to spin but not strong enough to make the disc turn at all? At science centers they have a spinning wheel much larger and heavier than a disc that little children are strong enough to force off axis. It's harder to force off-axis than a non spinning wheel, which is what the demonstration shows, but they can still do it. In the case of a disc we have a much, much lighter object with a much smaller radius and we are much stronger than little children.

Based on that it's a very valid hypothesis that we might be able to change the flight of a disc using OAT. It's also been tested many thousands of times over by people who bought discs that were too fast for them and then ended up not being able to throw putters and mids because they turned over too hard no matter how much hyzer they put on them. Not to mention all of the experienced players who use OAT to shape shots. There is no evidence that we can not produce enough OAT to change the flight of a disc and countless throws that are evidence that we can.
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