Thread: "BIG Arm"?
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Old 01-14-2019, 04:20 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hugheshilton View Post
Except they're not really. Maybe they are supposed to be, but the reality just doesn't work out with a lot of discs. Someone can throw a Star Destroyer at ~400 feet of power released flat and get the intended flight pattern out of the disc (yeah, yeah depending on the run of Destroyer of course). Now take a Wahoo (2.4cm rim, flight ratings 12 6 -2 2) and throw it flat with the same 400 feet of power and see what it does. You can give that disc all the height in the world and it will still turn into a roller at that power level. And 400 feet of flat power isn't even that much for a Star Destroyer; most Destroyers can handle way more power than that and still get a relatively true to the numbers flight with maybe a tiny adjustment to release angle or height. You might say it's because the Wahoo's turn and fade numbers are mislabeled, but I don't really think so. I think that just because a disc has a 2.4cm rim does not necessarily mean it must be thrown at 50+ mph in order to get it "up to speed". I think equating the optimal throwing speed (or band of useful speeds) with rim width is simply incorrect.

It's a gross simplification to say that all discs with 2.3 cm rims require the same level of power to get "up to speed" because the amount of power they can take varies quite a lot with the stability of the disc. And the sort of "band" of power levels in which a disc is usable also varies quite a lot by disc. I think a lot of the most popular discs get popular precisely because they have true flights (or at least useful flights) at a wide band of power levels. Teebirds are like that. They fly well at 250 and they fly well at 400. The flight might be slightly different at a higher power level, but not drastically so. Destroyers also have a pretty large useful power band in which they have pretty close to the same flight shape (roughly 350 - 500). Most Vulcans, on the other hand, do not. They are crappy drivers for most people because they have a very small useful power band. If you don't dial in the power and release angle just right they turn and turn or hyzer out early.

Anyway, yeah, I disagree with equating the speed a disc should be thrown at solely with rim width. I've seen way too many discs in which that formula simply doesn't work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twmccoy View Post
I agree that a disc can't be gauged on how much arm it takes to get up to speed based solely on rim width. There are plenty of very wide rimmed drivers that will turn and burn easily. Nuke SS, Bolt, Unlace, Freedom, Daedalus, Vulcan, etc.

I also agree that none of the discs I just named have a very large "optimal power window". Thrown too lightly they'll all stall out uselessly. Thrown even a tick too fast and they'll turn and burn instantly. A fast, understable driver can basically be thrown for downwind shots or hyzerflips only..... by anyone with a decent arm.

The Destroyer is a pretty good driver to mark how hard/far someone throws. It does have a very wide optimum power window and will fly true up past 500'.

I'm not even really sure how this conversation wound up here. Any "big arms" won't bother with wide rimmed, flippy drivers. I've thrown all the discs I named above, but I find them useless on the course.
Why do you think all discs with the same rim width have the same "speed rating? This allows for the stability and glide differences among those same speed rated discs thrown at a very specific mph and nose angle AoA (not a range of mph or nose angles) to be compared to each other. Anybody throwing at the speed rating or near it should not be throwing a disc with a negative turn rating flat, it needs to be thrown on upward trajectory. Again you can throw US high speed discs slower than their speed rating, and get them to fly ok, even nose up, but they are not flying as their rating suggests.

The faster the disc is rated/wider/sharper nose, the more sensitive it is to its own nose angle! This is why you get squirrelly results with them and pros don't typically throw them as they are willing to sacrifice potential distance for better consistency.

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