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Old 09-12-2016, 11:40 PM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is online now
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Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
What this reminds me of is someone trying to swing a baseball bat by focusing on massive weight shift/hip firing, before bat path is fully correct (your elbow forward position isn't happening), and at the detriment of overall balance. As SW22 said you did a good self analysis.

Don't stride so far forward, when you plant your foot is so far ahead that you can't catch your weight on it (you are going "into" it too much and that's why your knee never straightens and you end up tilted back).

You need to get your reachback extension later, you are reaching back early and the disc is dragging forward with an extended arm, then you fire the hips really hard and that causes your torso to lag behind and your left arm hugs your torso. I think this is a reason why you aren't getting to the elbow forward hand on the outside of the disc position.

To simplify, I would focus on shorter, light steps into a balanced Hershyzer type plant. And for upper body, delay the reachback and focus on keeping your forearm parallel to the line of fire as it is brought to your chest, before the shoulder unloading.
Thanks! I read a bit of your thread earlier and picked up some good bits in there. Late reachback has been a chronic problem of mine and I do notice that I throw a lot better when I have it better timed. When should my arm begin to bend on the pullthrough? I know it's heel down, then the hips pull the shoulder into place, and then I guess I should start pulling the elbow forward instead of the entire arm?
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  #12  
Old 09-12-2016, 11:51 PM
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Just keep your elbow forward/wide, so when your torso/shoulder turns the elbow is already forward moving with it(as well as the backswing). Don't think about pulling through, but swinging/releasing the lower arm forward.
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Old 09-13-2016, 12:39 AM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Originally Posted by UhhNegative View Post
Thanks! I read a bit of your thread earlier and picked up some good bits in there. Late reachback has been a chronic problem of mine and I do notice that I throw a lot better when I have it better timed. When should my arm begin to bend on the pullthrough? I know it's heel down, then the hips pull the shoulder into place, and then I guess I should start pulling the elbow forward instead of the entire arm?
As SW22 said it kind of takes care of itself if you keep things wide with good timing (you have been turning so aggressively your arm has to collapse to throw at the target). I was having lots of issues because I was reaching back with my arm (which isolated my arm from my shoulder plane), so when things started to feel better with my shoulders I had some different cues I was using to keep things on track. I bet things will line up for you when you get the reachback timed better and don't blast your hips so early compared to the rest of things.

The late reachback for me (thinking about reaching back as I'm already getting into the shift) is pretty critical for both timing of positions and power. I've been struggling with that for the last 6 months or so, today things were better timed for me and it leads to some pretty effortless distance even with a slow walk in. Moral of the story is the tempo and sequence of the shift is much more important than the amount you shift, if it's incorrect.
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Old 09-13-2016, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
As SW22 said it kind of takes care of itself if you keep things wide with good timing (you have been turning so aggressively your arm has to collapse to throw at the target). I was having lots of issues because I was reaching back with my arm (which isolated my arm from my shoulder plane), so when things started to feel better with my shoulders I had some different cues I was using to keep things on track. I bet things will line up for you when you get the reachback timed better and don't blast your hips so early compared to the rest of things.

The late reachback for me (thinking about reaching back as I'm already getting into the shift) is pretty critical for both timing of positions and power. I've been struggling with that for the last 6 months or so, today things were better timed for me and it leads to some pretty effortless distance even with a slow walk in. Moral of the story is the tempo and sequence of the shift is much more important than the amount you shift, if it's incorrect.
I see what you mean.

Another issue I just remembered, for anyone reading, is that I have no supination in my left wrist (throwing wrist). I injured my elbow long ago and while it has no pain, it basically only allows my forearm bones to rotate around each other by about 5 degrees or so. I'm not sure if this will be a problem or not, but I already have to only use a 3 finger grip (no index finger) so I can keep my hand more on top of the disc to try and keep the disc on a good plane. I might take a picture of my grip to clarify. I think it will be okay because I have been able to throw good nose down drives sometimes. Of course the lack of the index finger on the rim might reduce some overall potential power.
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Old 09-13-2016, 02:10 PM
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I drove by a field today and pulled over to get in a few throws. Did I say I really love throwing? Anyway, I thought about simply reaching out from my body and reaching out later and I was able to throw a T3 315' and a newish Star Roc3 300' into a light headwind on my first two throws. It felt effortless and I was probably only using 70% power. Already some great feeling improvements even though the bracing still felt off. Video to come later today.

Last edited by UhhNegative; 09-13-2016 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 09-13-2016, 10:37 PM
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So I didn't have much success in the field today. I was trying to delay my reachback but in the video it still shows me getting the disc all the way back and my arm extended when it should be moving forward. It was also surprisingly difficult to not round (I was still rounding). Had a couple "decent" throws though. Anyway, I got some video from behind today. Still the biggest problem is my arm coming around way later than it needs to be. It's also easier to see when the disc ejects in this view, and it's definitely too early. That's probably my compensation for the arm coming through too late. I remember that my good throws feel like the disc is basically moving past me, while it looks here that I'm moving forward and then the disc is moving forward. The "hit" always feels way later than it should be, just need to retrain the muscle memory. Also I'm sure there are balance issues too, but how does the bracing look? It's still somewhat of a foreign concept of what it should feel like.



This frame is from the first throw in the video, and out of 10 videos it looks like I got the disc the furthest into the "power pocket".


Last edited by UhhNegative; 09-13-2016 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 09-13-2016, 11:17 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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On the standstill it looks like you are rotating in place, rather than loading into the rear hip, shifting forward, and rotating because of the brace. Maybe this is happening to an extent in your X-step throws too?
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Old 09-13-2016, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
On the standstill it looks like you are rotating in place, rather than loading into the rear hip, shifting forward, and rotating because of the brace. Maybe this is happening to an extent in your X-step throws too?
Yeah the standstill was awkward and the disc did not go far at all. Can you explain a little further by what you mean by "rotating because of the brace"? So you mean I need to get my right butt cheek more forward to get it loaded aka butt wipe?

Last edited by UhhNegative; 09-13-2016 at 11:29 PM.
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Old 09-13-2016, 11:34 PM
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In a standstill, you need to get your weight shifted to the back foot, it should feel like 80-100% of your weight is on the instep/toes of your rear foot and your rear hip is internally rotated. Then as you are at max reachback (approx) you will be shifting into the heel-down plant foot in the Hershyzer drill type of feeling. Your weight should be driven into the plant and this should cause the elbow to move forward. As this is happening, the hips will start to open because you are braced correctly and you can then start the swing.

If you just start to rotate off of your rear foot, you aren't shifting any weight into the Hershyzer plant (the body will just rotate, no mass slides forwards). If you aren't braced correctly you'll simply step past your brace foot (you're not exhibiting this).

I realize if you aren't used to standstills then it can be tricky to throw them, but at the same time...if you can get this feeling in a standstill then the X-step will only add to it.

Edit: If you're currently throwing your mids 300', then you should be able to get them 250'+ standstill for sure.

Last edited by slowplastic; 09-13-2016 at 11:36 PM.
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Old 09-13-2016, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
In a standstill, you need to get your weight shifted to the back foot, it should feel like 80-100% of your weight is on the instep/toes of your rear foot and your rear hip is internally rotated. Then as you are at max reachback (approx) you will be shifting into the heel-down plant foot in the Hershyzer drill type of feeling. Your weight should be driven into the plant and this should cause the elbow to move forward. As this is happening, the hips will start to open because you are braced correctly and you can then start the swing.

If you just start to rotate off of your rear foot, you aren't shifting any weight into the Hershyzer plant (the body will just rotate, no mass slides forwards). If you aren't braced correctly you'll simply step past your brace foot (you're not exhibiting this).

I realize if you aren't used to standstills then it can be tricky to throw them, but at the same time...if you can get this feeling in a standstill then the X-step will only add to it.

Edit: If you're currently throwing your mids 300', then you should be able to get them 250'+ standstill for sure.
Ok I see what you are saying. So it's less of an active hip rotation rather than the hips HAVE to rotate because I'm throwing my weight into the brace by my arm/disc moving forward. Something like that?
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