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Old 12-04-2017, 08:33 PM
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TripleB TripleB is offline
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Default Form Advice Appreciated!!!!

I'm 50 and have been (along with my 10 year old son who started when I did) playing disc golf for 3 months now. I've gotten an enormous amount of help with my disc selection on other parts of the board and now want to concentrate on my form.

My consistency, especially on my short game/approaches, has really improved. On a local "open" course that is 5,325 feet (par 57), from the reds, I typically shoot between 61 and 65. On another local course, heavily wooded, that is 4,265 feet (par 55), I typically shoot between 60 and 67.

Now that I've gotten some consistency on my 150' and in area, and I can typically scrounge out a par on most holes, I want to add some distance in order to get some reasonable birdie chances - and eventually be able to move back to the blue tees.

During my last two outings, 2 hours of field work and 18 holes, I've worked on two areas of my throws/approach:

1) I learned to move my front foot further left as I'm throwing in order to add some power. Unfortunately today when I was having my 10 year old son video me I forgot all about that new found distance gainer...therefore my front foot is further right that what I've been working on.

2) I've tried to put an X step in my approach. Being a tennis player I was told never to cross my feet, so up until last week I had never tried an X step...so that's why I look so timid with it.

The three throws were with an Innova Manta DX 171g, a Discraft Comet X-Line 169g, and then an Innova Teebird DX 163g. All three went between 230 and 240 feet (in this video I think the Comet actually went the furthest)...all throws were reasonably straight with the Teebird having a slight fade at the very end.

So, I would love to hear any helpful feedback you can give to help me improve! I know it's going to be brutal cause my form looks horrible to me so I know to experts you're probably cringing while looking at it!!!

Thank you in advance for your critiques!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-MGTVh7HZQ

TripleB
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Old 12-04-2017, 09:31 PM
deyo7 deyo7 is offline
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TripleB,

Have you checked out the instructional video sticky in the "Technique" Forum? If not, I would watch all of Sidewinder22's videos, among others there. Here: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...d.php?t=119328. I've seen you get lost in details of discs in those forums, you're about to discover a whole new thing to get lost in with form technique -excited for you, you're in for a fun ride.

I'll let others address any specific form critiques to work on first since they have more experience as to where would be best to start. Just thought knowing where instructional videos were would be helpful if you haven't discovered.

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Old 12-04-2017, 09:33 PM
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I wouldn't worry about the x-step yet. You need to work on your stance setup and swing mechanics. Just setting up on the back on the tee pad you are facing the target instead of sideways, so that is leading you to hugging yourself instead of giving yourself a lot of space to swing back and forth with your body out of the way. You also need to turn your head and body back and watch your arm/disc in the backswing, instead of starring down the target and restricting your body turning back into the backswing. Your feet/body should be doing the aiming to the target, not your head/eyes. You want your whole body and arm moving more together in the backswing so everything pivots nicely and unrestricted. You also need to uncurl your arm in the backswing, toss the arm/disc fully extended back into the backswing loosely. Don't try to curl the wrist/disc and spin it. The disc will spin plenty if you just lever it forward properly like you would tossing a hammer or stick.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...d.php?t=119328




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Old 12-04-2017, 10:25 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Yeah, a couple concepts to start from is that you don't need to use your eyes to aim. Think of a tennis serve...you don't set up any other shot like that. And you're not looking at your opponent. You decide where you want to place the ball, set up your body accordingly, then go through with the rest of the motion letting muscle memory and positioning take over. Same thing with a drive, you decide and remember the height of the intended shot and your release angle for hyzer/flat/anny, then your body and feet setup will take you along the path of the flight no matter if you are looking or not. The trees aren't going anywhere, you don't need to look at them while throwing a shot with any amount of power. Of course on short upshots you can look at gaps, but this is a different technique and you aren't trying to get a full flight.

I agree with SW22, for starters I would have a nice sideways stance with right foot 90 degrees to target and rear foot maybe 120ish from target so pointed slightly back. Trace a line rear toes through front heel to target. Think of the reachback as a backswing where you turn your upper body back...right shoulder turns back, left shoulder blade towards target, so you rotate nice and balanced around the spine. Keep your upper arm angle greater than 90 degrees at all times. You will feel like you're reaching way out to the side, but this will let you bring the disc in one line to the target in an elbow forward position. That closed shoulder snap video above shows this.

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Old 12-04-2017, 10:28 PM
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TripleB TripleB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deyo7 View Post
TripleB,

Have you checked out the instructional video sticky in the "Technique" Forum? If not, I would watch all of Sidewinder22's videos, among others there. Here: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...d.php?t=119328.
Thank you very much for the link....definitely going to be a never ending work in progress - and I'm looking forward to it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
I wouldn't worry about the x-step yet. You need to work on your stance setup and swing mechanics. Just setting up on the back on the tee pad you are facing the target instead of sideways, so that is leading you to hugging yourself instead of giving yourself a lot of space to swing back and forth with your body out of the way. You also need to turn your head and body back and watch your arm/disc in the backswing, instead of starring down the target and restricting your body turning back into the backswing. Your feet/body should be doing the aiming to the target, not your head/eyes. You want your whole body and arm moving more together in the backswing so everything pivots nicely and unrestricted. You also need to uncurl your arm in the backswing, toss the arm/disc fully extended back into the backswing loosely. Don't try to curl the wrist/disc and spin it. The disc will spin plenty if you just lever it forward properly like you would tossing a hammer or stick.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...d.php?t=119328
Thank you very much for all the advice and videos!!!

I think I tried to over simplify things to start with by standing still and throwing the disc. Then when I found out if I put a couple approach steps I could gain a little power. Then I noticed that if I curled my wrist I could get even more power. Then if I added the X step I gained even more power. So I think part of my problem is that instead of watching a video like yours closely (like I should have), I took it upon myself to try and figure out what gave me boosts in power...at the sake of picking up bad habits!

I did attempt to turn my shoulders/body/head away from my target and my directional control suffered horribly - and unfortunately I worried more about my consistency and score than proper form. Although I admit I didn't work on that turn away as diligently as I should and went back to what was "working."

The turning away should come somewhat naturally (although it hasn't) because when I hit a backhand in tennis (my best shot) I turn both of my shoulders and don't face the target at contact.

I will definitely take a closer look at your videos and go back to the basics - standing still and working on turning my head/arms/body/shoulders away from the target and 'try' not to worry so much about results on the course!

Again, thank you for taking the time to respond and giving me items to work on to improve!

Of course now it's supposed to turn cold but I will get out and work on my throws!!!!!

TripleB
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Old 12-07-2017, 08:10 PM
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TripleB TripleB is offline
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Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
I agree with SW22, for starters I would have a nice sideways stance with right foot 90 degrees to target and rear foot maybe 120ish from target so pointed slightly back. Trace a line rear toes through front heel to target. Think of the reachback as a backswing where you turn your upper body back...right shoulder turns back, left shoulder blade towards target, so you rotate nice and balanced around the spine. Keep your upper arm angle greater than 90 degrees at all times. You will feel like you're reaching way out to the side, but this will let you bring the disc in one line to the target in an elbow forward position. That closed shoulder snap video above shows this.
I went today and spent about 40 minutes working on this...reaching back, eyes away from target, right arm fully extended, pulling elbow through core area, and having a good follow through

I started with just a stand still to get the stance correct, shoulders away from target, and the feeling of my right arm extended behind me. I threw a dozen or so like this but found it was hurting my elbow - maybe trying to throw too hard or arm not warmed up yet.

I went back to my 4 step walk up, similar to what's in the video, except this time I made sure to extend my arm behind me, shoulders and head turned away from target, and kept the wristiness out of my motion. I basically tried to combine the videos above with this video from Schusterick https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30cUNsWOYSI It was just the first day but I was happy with the results.

I didn't see a lot of distance gained on my mids (Comet, Manta, Stingray, Stratus, etc), and maybe a little less accuracy that I had been getting, but what I did see was a flight path that was more in line with what the disc numbers would indicate...the Stingray and Stratus both had a nice little turnover, the Comet went straight but now didn't want to fade any like it had in the past, and even my beat to pieces Leopard turned over more than it had been. Most of my discs are understable (being a newbie, I assumed that was what I was supposed to get...and it has helped) so I really wasn't finding a fade with any of my throws. Slight fade on my beat a bit DX Teebird and some fade on my Roc, but other than that not much.

The other thing I found was that some discs that I couldn't get to fly correctly before were now flying as they should: Sidewinder DX 165g went way right and very far (my buddy said over 300', if so that's the first time I've ever hit that milestone) with very little fade back towards middle; my 164g Avenger SS X-Line was reasonably long (not Sidewinder long though) and had a pretty strong turnover (like a -3/1 disc should); and a disc that had done nothing except take a hard fade on me, 168g DX Valkyrie, was long and straight.

So I'm feeling pretty pumped right now!!!

The only thing that bums me out is that I had pretty much decided what discs I wanted for Christmas but now if discs are going to start flying like the numbers indicate they should, I'm going to have to rethink my disc wants!

Thanks for everything...once it gets back above 50 (maybe Monday) I'll try to put a new video up of my new found form!

TripleB

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Old 12-07-2017, 08:32 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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That sounds great. Less fade probably means you are getting more spin on the disc...funny how more spin happens when you aren't trying to spin the disc heh

Be careful with the elbow thing. That can happen if you trying to gas the throw with your shoulder while maybe trying to throw mid-power, so the torso isn't really coming through but the shoulder is hitting too hard and the elbow catches up to slam open rather than everything smoothly following through without impact. If something hurts then definitely figure out why and avoid it.

Honestly a 300' and in straight throw is one of the most important to have, and not everyone has that. You can always buy a more overstable disc at some point and throw it the same way to end left, but you can't buy a 300' straight shot without actually knowing how to throw pretty well.

Also a word of warning on that Schustrick video: it has helped me as much as it has hurt me while I was learning past the basics. Nothing in there is wrong, just his body and mechanics are so different on the surface from most people, that trying to copy it is difficult. Definitely take generalities and concepts from it, but do not try to copy his form piece by piece. It took me a long time to actually understand what his motions are, compared to my initial reaction of liking his throw because it looks so good.

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Last edited by slowplastic; 12-07-2017 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 12-11-2017, 08:25 PM
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TripleB TripleB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
I wouldn't worry about the x-step yet. You need to work on your stance setup and swing mechanics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
Yeah, a couple concepts to start from is that you don't need to use your eyes to aim. I agree with SW22, for starters I would have a nice sideways stance with right foot 90 degrees to target and rear foot maybe 120ish from target so pointed slightly back.
I tried working on a lot of what you all were talking about and below you will find a video of me trying to incorporate the concepts (the ones that I could remember at the time) into my throws. The video below is my 3rd time out trying the new "don't look at the target" throwing.

Right off the bat I can tell I'm still curling my wrist...I guess because I think it will help me get some extra power.

Looking forward to hearing what you think!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBZ5kkFSxDA

btw: something must be helping because I actually threw a Star 158g Tern well over 300' today (and it flew like the numbers suggest it should) and a 168g DX Leopard a hair over 300'

Thanks!

TripleB
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Old 12-11-2017, 11:19 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Looks like you're getting some good golf flights, which is awesome so you're at a point where you can really enjoy the game.

I would watch this video below, there is tons of info in it and may take several viewings. What I would focus on is first, you aren't flowing. You're reaching back, stopping dead, then just moving forward. You are also tipping/tilting your spine back to the rear of the tee rather than turning around your spine in a balanced upright/athletic position. Also your upper arm angle is too shallow, you are reaching behind you rather than out wide. Get a 100-120 degree upper arm/shoulder angle at reachback, it should feel weirdly out to the side.

You then start moving/spinning forward all at once, and leading with your front leg. You can see your front heel rotate back, toes rotate open, and front knee rotate open to lead the throw. This loses any potential weight shift you could have. You are then playing catch-up with your front leg, and your arm gets squashed against your chest and you have to round the throw a bit instead of having a wide upper arm angle and elbow forward position...you "drag the disc" form the front a bit instead of getting it forward and unloading all the levers.

Look at the difference between your first throw where you really open the foot before landing, and the last throw where you still have the pre-opening intentions, but let it stay closed more.


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Old 12-11-2017, 11:58 PM
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TripleB TripleB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
What I would focus on is first, you aren't flowing. You are also tipping/tilting your spine back to the rear of the tee rather than turning around your spine in a balanced upright/athletic position. Also your upper arm angle is too shallow, you are reaching behind you rather than out wide. Get a 100-120 degree upper arm/shoulder angle at reachback, it should feel weirdly out to the side.

You then start moving/spinning forward all at once, and leading with your front leg. You can see your front heel rotate back, toes rotate open, and front knee rotate open to lead the throw. This loses any potential weight shift you could have. You are then playing catch-up with your front leg, and your arm gets squashed against your chest and you have to round the throw a bit instead of having a wide upper arm angle and elbow forward position...you "drag the disc" form the front a bit instead of getting it forward and unloading all the levers.

Look at the difference between your first throw where you really open the foot before landing, and the last throw where you still have the pre-opening intentions, but let it stay closed more.
Thank you for your feedback!

I think I was so intent on getting my arm back and out away from the back of my body that I tilted my body to get that disc way back there. Thank you for pointing out my tilt...I never would have thought about it, but it makes complete since!

On my right arm, are you saying I don't need to straighten it out so much, I should keep it bent a little (because my arm is almost completely straight, and to me looks unnatural)?

And I shouldn't have it so far straight back out (to the rear) from my body, but I should keep it out away from the front of my body a bit for clearance when coming through?

Ahhhh, so I'm rotating my front foot too soon and therefore the weight isn't shifting like it should. Should my hips, arms, or shoulders start the forward movement?

You are saying my last throw was better than my first right?

I feel like I'm making it a bit too mechanical, trying to get everything as it looks online, and not really being, as you so well pointed out, very athletic!

Again, I appreciate your time and will continue working to get my form (and therefore results) better!

TripleB
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