#1211  
Old 06-26-2019, 07:47 AM
pjhayes7 pjhayes7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lines View Post
::grabs a handful of popcorn, waiting for response::
I mean really. What does some dude named Dave know about discs generally and the Wizard specifically? That was probably just a troll spreading fake news.
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  #1212  
Old 06-26-2019, 08:02 AM
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lines lines is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjhayes7 View Post
I mean really. What does some dude named Dave know about discs generally and the Wizard specifically? That was probably just a troll spreading fake news.
It's not his response I'm waiting for.
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  #1213  
Old 06-26-2019, 08:54 AM
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tbird888 tbird888 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjhayes7 View Post
I mean really. What does some dude named Dave know about discs generally and the Wizard specifically? That was probably just a troll spreading fake news.
I know, right!?! It's not like he owns Gateway and created the Wizard. It's not like the nickname of the Wizard wasn't the Daviar at one point or anything.

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  #1214  
Old 06-26-2019, 09:48 AM
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Coldpunk Coldpunk is offline
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I actually had someone call me out for using a g9i in a tournament after he grabbed it from the basket after one of my putts to hand it back to me. Luckily being in Missouri the TD was very familiar with Gateway and the g9i controversy. TD asked the guy who called me out for using an illegal disc if the putter said PDGA approved on the back(which of course it did) and said “there’s your answer, legal disc”.

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  #1215  
Old 06-26-2019, 10:12 AM
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SD86 SD86 is offline
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So this is basically like a cop pulling someone over for speeding but letting them go with just a warning. They were in violation of the rules, but didn't get a citation, only a warning, and they stayed within the speed limit after that.

Likewise, the PDGA told Gateway the G9i and Mediums were illegal, but did not outright ban all G9i discs (i.e. the citation); and Gateway voluntarily withdrew the offenders from their sales market.

Does this pretty much cover it?

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Last edited by SD86; 06-26-2019 at 10:14 AM.
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  #1216  
Old 06-26-2019, 10:29 AM
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dysmike dysmike is offline
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No, they told them they were too stiff (a materials issue, not a design issue). The mold is perfectly legal.

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  #1217  
Old 06-26-2019, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dysmike View Post
No, they told them they were too stiff (a materials issue, not a design issue). The mold is perfectly legal.
The material was the whole frickin' point of the problem to begin with. The design was never the issue, the material was. So what was your point in even bringing up the design of the disc?

And if the PDGA said the material was too stiff, they were saying that discs of that material would be illegal in sanctioned play. And that's what they told Gateway, and Gateway took the Mediums and the bad G9i out.
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  #1218  
Old 06-27-2019, 12:08 PM
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Three Putt Three Putt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD86 View Post
The material was the whole frickin' point of the problem to begin with. The design was never the issue, the material was. So what was your point in even bringing up the design of the disc?

And if the PDGA said the material was too stiff, they were saying that discs of that material would be illegal in sanctioned play. And that's what they told Gateway, and Gateway took the Mediums and the bad G9i out.
It's semantics.

The flex test has always been a bad standard because there is no enforcement. Manufacturers send in some protos and so long as those pass the test, the discs are legal. The PDGA doesn't do compliance checks i.e. randomly taking stock discs are retesting them. It's not possible to check discs in players bags for compliance.

As a player, I throw pre-2013 medium Wizards. I have neither the equipment or the know-how to flex test my golf discs and I'm not going to stop throwing them because they "might" be illegal per the flex test. I can't prove that they are legal per the flex test, but I can't prove that any disc in my bag can pass the flex test. So far as I'm aware of, my entire bag of golf discs might be illegal by the flex test standard. All I can do is trust the manufacturers that they are not selling discs that are not compliant with the flex test. Anybody with those stiff Firebirds or a Cam Todd Challenger knows that's not always the case.

Gateway got "caught" for something that nobody does i.e. doing in house flex test compliance for individual runs of discs. They got reported by somebody and voluntarily removed the plastic blends in question. Instead of just letting them go OOP and not saying anything, they admitted that it was a flex test issue and people flew off the handle and said the discs were somehow retroactively illegal even though there is no way to enforce that.

Back to me and my pre-2013 medium Wizards. I've had people claim that if I cared about rules I would voluntarily stop using them because "you know they are illegal." I know no such thing. I know that Gateway plastics are wildly inconsistent and at least one medium blend they sold was determined to be too stiff. I also have Wizards marked as "soft" that are stiffer than some of my mediums. I can tell you with total confidence that the fact that around 2013 sometime a run of medium Wizards was found to be too stiff proves nothing about the Wizards I have.

Which is back to the the start. Can my medium Wizards pass a flex test? No idea. Can my big bead Omega AP's pass a flex test? Also no idea. Could that worn-out old Pro Starfire that shattered on me pass the flex test at any point in the last two years that I threw it? Well if it was so brittle that it shattered probably not, but I'm sure it could have when I bought it. I can't test for that, though. Unenforceable rule.

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  #1219  
Old 06-28-2019, 07:20 AM
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Flick Maniac Flick Maniac is offline
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True true.

Problem is, the way the rule is worded, all suspect discs are illegal until proven otherwise.

So not only is it hard to enforce, its a guilty until proven innocent type of deal. Although, if I was a TD and someone was suspecting their fellow players discs to mess with them, without any good reason, I would not hesitate to DQ their ass.
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  #1220  
Old 06-28-2019, 10:12 AM
mistabman mistabman is offline
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These are super sweet!
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