#211  
Old 08-20-2019, 08:33 PM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
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When I go play, I only throw a flat/straight shot a few times a round as it's usually easier to just throw a hard high hyzer that will drop like a lawn dart right where I want. But I guess I measure my progress by how far, straight (or at least straight-ish), and flat I can throw when "working" on my throw in the field. Which has been about 95% of all my throwing. I've literally only played 4 times on a disc course.
Most good disc golf courses will require a lot of straight and anhyzer flights. It's good to have a strong hyzer game because it is the most accurate way to throw, but at least here in the east coast it's all tight gaps and woods with some open holes sprinkled in.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's probably a good idea to actually play some rounds too because then you know what to practice for. You never practice a roller until you find a hole on a course that demands it, and then it forces you to learn a new shot and practice it if you want to play that hole well. Lines you wouldn't think of in an open field.
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  #212  
Old 08-20-2019, 08:35 PM
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Funny thing is, I feel like I "AM" keeping the disc wide and not hugging myself as much anymore. I think I've made good strides there. I guess you're just saying, I could do even better?

And I'm not sure I follow the first part here. That flat and straight don't exist?

And my grip is fine I'm pretty sure.
There is always better.

Flat and straight do not exist if you want to throw far efficiently. Nothing in the universe or nature moves straight or flat.

I wouldn't be content with your grip until you are throwing big d.
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Old 08-20-2019, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperWookie;3487857
[I
Compression on the front leg initiates the forward swing. Crush the Can then swing. You should still be in compression/crushing the can into the finish. You can be extending while still compressing or increasing compression. Backswing should be uncompressed extended/tall/airborne, transition you get shorter and start to compress.[/I]

So the colored/bold words are what caught my attention and I have a question about. First of all, can you explain why it would make a difference if you landed on your foot more flat vs on your toe in regards to the throw? I don't care about the ergonomics or comfort or anything like that. I'm not interested in that. I just want to know, WHY is it important to land on your toe first, then crush the can?

Then, what is going on with "crush the can" that makes dropping your heel slightly later than your toe so important? I just realized I don't even know why we're supposed to do that. Just that SW says we should. Because it is much easier on your knees or something to land on your toe and then drop on to your heel. But I want to know what it adds or detracts from the throw if you do crush the can vs not crushing it and just dropping down flat footed or even on your heel in regards to the throw.
Your mobility/power/quickness to accelerate and change direction comes from your insteps, not your heels. Your heels give your ankle and up stability/balance. When you run forward or backward or sideways you push off and land on your insteps, not your heels. When you want to change direction hard your heel/s will come down to give you stability.

Landing toes first/plantar flexed foot engages your calf and core muscles and gives you athletic balance and stability to settle your weightshift and redirect/funnel that energy up the body, instead of the foot sliding or jerking back off the ground from the ground reaction force, and/or CoG swaying outside balanced posture.

Moving laterally, if you push into the ground with the landing instep, it should push/drop your heel down or redirect your weight pressure toward the heel. The pressure on the foot moves from instep toward heel and gives your Center of Gravity a twirl to sling the arm/disc targetward away from it. If you land flat footed or on heel it is much harder to be dynamic on it and move/control your CoG to give it a twirl.

If you just stand feet together and take a normal step to start walking, your momentum/CoG is moving forward and if you catch yourself with your instep in front of your CoG and push back into the ground to reverse or change direction of your walk/momentum it sends your heel down to help maintain your CoG balanced inside your posture. Simon's plant step toward the left teepad side isn't flat footed although it may appear it, his foot walks/slides forward relative to him so his instep is landing first to change direction and then the heel comes down to help stabilize.





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  #214  
Old 08-21-2019, 01:07 PM
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Most good disc golf courses will require a lot of straight and anhyzer flights. It's good to have a strong hyzer game because it is the most accurate way to throw, but at least here in the east coast it's all tight gaps and woods with some open holes sprinkled in.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's probably a good idea to actually play some rounds too because then you know what to practice for. You never practice a roller until you find a hole on a course that demands it, and then it forces you to learn a new shot and practice it if you want to play that hole well. Lines you wouldn't think of in an open field.
Yeah, totally agree. I have been working on some new shots while practicing in the field here and there. But I just started playing. Trying to tell a beginner golfer to start working on hitting a stinger into the wind, or a super high soft landing fade with a long iron, or a huge sweeping tee shot is not very conducive to learning the proper fundamentals first. Once a golfer has the basics down really well, can hit properly, and is in a more advanced level of the swing, THEN they can work on adding more shots to their repertoire. It's important to know HOW to hit or throw well first, THEN work on more advanced shots and techniques.

I'm still in the beginner phase of throwing a disc golf and literally still trying to figure out how to throw, haha. My throw is not super repeatable yet and throwing it fairly straight at a good distance is still not a given by any stretch of the imagination. So just learning to throw properly is my main concern right now. Just tons and tons of reps throwing far and straight. I CAN throw other shots, but so far, on the course I play most often, I don't need a ton of shots to play well and have fun. I can throw a straight shot or a hyzer and that covers almost any single shot I could ever have to throw. But to be real honest, I actually just enjoy throwing in a field much more than playing! Playing is a little nerve wracking as well as kind of silly feeling to me. It just doesn't feel like golf or tennis match or something like that. So for now, I'm having way more fun just throwing. So that is what I am working on. Throwing as far and accurately as possible IS my main goal right now, and what I have the most fun doing.

I may have made a great breakthrough recently, but I have a long way to go until I would say I have a good solid throw. And when I get there, that is when I will worry more about practicing different types of necessary shots for the courses I play. But thanks for the tips! I appreciate it
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Old 08-21-2019, 06:34 PM
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I have a generic question related to Disc flight path numbers I really don't understand. Can you guys explain WHY someone would need, want or use a low glide disc? I see In the Bag of pros sometimes on yt, and all the heavy hitters have TONS of discs in their bag that seem to overlap. And one thing I noticed is that guys like Simon, Kevin Jones, etc have quite a few discs with numbers like 10/3/0/4 or 12/3.5/0/3 or even a midrange or FW that is 5/3/0/2 or 7/3/0/3. Just crazy stuff like that.

And my understanding of glide and speed ratings is very limited and rudimentary, so I'm wondering if you can explain WHY a player would throw a disc like that? I thought the whole point of throwing a different speed disc is to have it go farther and farther from the distance you can throw your putter? So if my putter has a speed 3 and glide 3, it goes 250 max lets say. Then if I moved up to a midrange with 5/5/0/1, it would go 300ish max and a little higher and stay in the air a little longer at the end? And you keep jumping up in speed to get more distance (of course glide pretty much tops out for 99% of discs in the 5-6 range).

So when I see a disc that is a 11/3/0/3, I instantly think to myself, HOLLY CR*P, that disc is going to be SUPER hard to keep on a straighter line, it's GOING to go left almost immediately, and it's going to hit the ground quickly. Whereas when I see a disc that says 11/6/-1/2 or 7/6/-1/1, I get excited. Because I see that as a potential disc to throw super far, accurately and yet still be in good control and not have some huge S line path that goes 30' right, then 20' back left.

But now that I know all these pros are carrying not just 1, but sometimes 4-8 discs like this in their bag, speeds 7-12 with glide of 3-4, I realize I may not understand why you always don't want to throw a high glide disc.

The only reason I can see for throwing a low glide disc is for a putter, like the Berg (which I just picked up and can't wait to try). If you throw that thing at a decent speed and you miss the basket, it should in theory fall like a brick and not go very far past the basket. Same on a short approach of like 100' or something. If I can dial that thing in to different distances, it should just drop out of the sky like a brick right where I want? Right? So why would anyone want a midrange or fairway or driver that does that? It seems like if I want to throw a speed 7 fw disc, it's because I want to throw it 300-400'. Not 250 and just fall out of the sky. I'm really confused by this.

I must be missing something here though, because a lot of pros and I'm sure AM's use these low glide discs for something. And it must be useful, otherwise they wouldn't be throwing them. So can you guys explain some or all of the reasons you would want a low glide disc?

Thanks
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  #216  
Old 08-21-2019, 07:11 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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For newer players high glide discs are awesome....gives you easier distance and rewards clean throws rather than overly torqued throws.

But when you can throw hard and far, even when powering down, then you need discs that are consistent. Not every disc is meant to go your max distance. High glide discs are harder to range, if you throw them just slightly too hard or slightly too high they can overshoot your landing zone by 30'+. Also high glide discs are far more affected by wind, often they'll get more of the "elevator" effect when they suddenly jump up and down several times during the flight.

Low glide discs are far more consistent to throw. If someone can throw 400'+, then a 300' shot is nothing for them. If they throw a glidey midrange then they may go way too far for 300'. But if they throw a lower glide OS mid, then they can throw it hard and it will stop in that same distance range basically every time, plus it will be less affected by a moderate wind in any direction.

With drivers there are inherent advantages from the speed, like being able to throw a lower line that gets out there on velocity. So even if say a speed 10-12 super OS and low glide disc only goes as far as a neutral and glidey mid for the same player, that driver will be able to do it far lower to the ground and ignore basically any wind condition or some poor torque during the throw.

Basically if you have the power to throw a lower glide disc without really exerting yourself too much, then it has far more consistent results. I don't like mids without much glide, but the super glidey ones are really hard for me to control every time. You have to find a balance for your arm speed and play style. At a certain point you don't need every disc in a certain speed class to go as far as possible...some discs can go too far and glide too well to be consistent if you're not looking for max distance out of the mold. For example I wouldn't use a Sidewinder as a fairway/control mold even though it being a speed 9 is kind of that "control driver" spot in the market now. It just goes so much farther than most fairway drivers and so much farther than mids, that it makes a problem of having too big of a gap from midranges. But that's an example for my arm speed, play style, and bag arrangement how something in a speed class may have too much glide. But a Sidewinder could be a distance turnover disc or a roller.

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  #217  
Old 08-22-2019, 11:19 AM
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For newer players high glide discs are awesome....gives you easier distance and rewards clean throws rather than overly torqued throws.

But when you can throw hard and far, even when powering down, then you need discs that are consistent. Not every disc is meant to go your max distance.

So first of all, lets just use a player that throws a max distance driver 400' (12/5/-1/2 disc), so that we can use that as an example throughout this discussion.

So why would you use a max distance disc then with a glide of 3? Why not just throw a speed 7 or 9 disc with normal 5 glide or something like that to get that distance? Is it just a wind thing? A trajectory height thing? Do low glide discs go just as high in the air as a higher glide disc? Or do they usually fly lower overall?


High glide discs are harder to range, if you throw them just slightly too hard or slightly too high they can overshoot your landing zone by 30'+. Also high glide discs are far more affected by wind, often they'll get more of the "elevator" effect when they suddenly jump up and down several times during the flight.

So you're saying high glide discs are touchy to distance? Are you saying if a high glide disc with a normal hard throw goes 360', but if you really get a hold of it, it will jump up to 390-400? Or possibly turn over right too much if you really ripped on it? And what does the "elevator" effect have to do with overall accuracy and distance? Does it make the disc possibly lose or gain distance if it's going up and down? I have seen that happen to some of my throws sometimes going downwind. And then conversely, do low glide discs NOT have the elevator effect? Do they stay dead flat the entire throw? And does that mean they always go about the same distance with a super reliable flight path?

Low glide discs are far more consistent to throw. If someone can throw 400'+, then a 300' shot is nothing for them. If they throw a glidey midrange then they may go way too far for 300'. But if they throw a lower glide OS mid, then they can throw it hard and it will stop in that same distance range basically every time, plus it will be less affected by a moderate wind in any direction.

Ok, so now you're sort of answering more of what I was asking above. Still not a 100% sure, but understanding more. So lets say I throw a Lat 64 Compass 280ish on most throws. But... if I really get a hold of it, or throw it a tad high, it can easily jump more in distance and glide another 20-40' past that distance. But that a MD4/5 will almost always go around 280, even if I rip on it?

With drivers there are inherent advantages from the speed, like being able to throw a lower line that gets out there on velocity. So even if say a speed 10-12 super OS and low glide disc only goes as far as a neutral and glidey mid for the same player, that driver will be able to do it far lower to the ground and ignore basically any wind condition or some poor torque during the throw.

Ok! I see where you going with this. Can we play a little name that disc/distance game, so I have a clue about how much distance the low glide takes off of a certain disc speed?

So using our example above of a max 400' player. Lets say they throw a max D driver 400, then a super OS high speed driver around 370-380, then a Control driver speed 9 around 330-360, then a speed 7 glidey FD around 310-330 and longer mids in the 270-300 range. So, knowing that, what would that player expect to throw a speed 12 driver, that has a glide of 3-4? And is the height of the throw the same or lower? Same goes for this same player throwing a speed 9 low glide control driver. How far would they expect that disc to fly compared to their normal speed 9?

Like I see Kevin Jones and Simon using a TON of speed 9-12 low glide discs in addition to their normal glide 5 discs in that speed range. And all I get out of it, is that they throw those when the wind is howling and/or they need to make 100% sure the disc goes straight and finishes hard left. NO chance of turning over right AT ALL. But I don't play much in the wind, and I don't have any problem throwing my current discs hard left if I need too. So is a speed 9 or 11 low glide disc something I wouldn't really need? Or is it something I should carry? At least 1 maybe? And would it be better to have a speed 5, 7, 9, or 11 low glide based on throwing those numbers above (not that I throw that, just using that as an example)?


Basically if you have the power to throw a lower glide disc without really exerting yourself too much, then it has far more consistent results. I don't like mids without much glide, but the super glidey ones are really hard for me to control every time. You have to find a balance for your arm speed and play style. At a certain point you don't need every disc in a certain speed class to go as far as possible...some discs can go too far and glide too well to be consistent if you're not looking for max distance out of the mold. For example I wouldn't use a Sidewinder as a fairway/control mold even though it being a speed 9 is kind of that "control driver" spot in the market now. It just goes so much farther than most fairway drivers and so much farther than mids, that it makes a problem of having too big of a gap from midranges. But that's an example for my arm speed, play style, and bag arrangement how something in a speed class may have too much glide. But a Sidewinder could be a distance turnover disc or a roller.

So I'm sort of understanding all of this, but still, not completely sure. It "seems" as if it's micro differences and that players that have huge bags that can hold 20 or more discs, just want a ton of the same mold, but in different plastics, different levels of beat in wear, and ever so slightly different results. Is that about right? So my last question is, what would be a few good low glide discs to add to my bag? Not so much which disc, but what speed and glide? As of right now, my entire playing bag consists only of glide 5 or 6 discs. And I'm thinking it might be helpful to add maybe 1-2 low glide discs in the mid range, fw, control driver or max d driver positions? In order to allow me to have a few discs I know I can throw low, hard, and far, but always go the exact distance I want.
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Old 08-22-2019, 11:47 AM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
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Honestly I wouldn't put any faith in the "glide" flight numbers or really any flight numbers except for speed. There is so much variability between plastics/runs/weights that you really have to throw a disc to know how it flies. Without far more precise manufacturing methods there's going to be a lot of variability. That's why you hear people talking about things like "2nd run FDs" because that particular run of discs came out more stable than regular FDs and so a lot of people like them.

I think it's a lot more useful to think in terms of speed and stability. You typically want to have something understable, straight, and overstable at each speed category. So the categories would be something like Speed 2-4: putters, Speed 4-6: mids, Speed 7-10: fairway drivers, Speed 11-14: high speed drivers. Then you fill in each category with discs with varying stability. Could be the same mold in different stages of wear (or just fly differently) or different molds.
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Old 08-22-2019, 02:51 PM
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Honestly I wouldn't put any faith in the "glide" flight numbers or really any flight numbers except for speed. There is so much variability between plastics/runs/weights that you really have to throw a disc to know how it flies. Without far more precise manufacturing methods there's going to be a lot of variability. That's why you hear people talking about things like "2nd run FDs" because that particular run of discs came out more stable than regular FDs and so a lot of people like them.

I think it's a lot more useful to think in terms of speed and stability. You typically want to have something understable, straight, and overstable at each speed category. So the categories would be something like Speed 2-4: putters, Speed 4-6: mids, Speed 7-10: fairway drivers, Speed 11-14: high speed drivers. Then you fill in each category with discs with varying stability. Could be the same mold in different stages of wear (or just fly differently) or different molds.
Arrrgggghhhhh, so frustrating. I just want discs that go different distances just like golf. I don't want to have to sort through hundreds of discs over my lifetime trying to find the perfect disc for every shot. I just want to know how far certain discs will go based on throwing around 400' max distance. I feel like it should be much easier to get that info and know aproximately how far discs go, if you know how far someone can throw.

The second part of your response IS something I've finally paid attention to lately, now that I'm actually playing actual rounds on a course and understanding a little better. Like, I have 3-4 putters, 1 super OS, 1 great driving putter, one jack of all trades putter, and one super low glide brick (the Berg), then I have a super US Mid (the Fuse), a few straight ones (Compass and Mako3), and a few fairly straight but OS ones (S line MD3 and C line glow MD3), etc etc through my bag. So I guess that's good I figured that out on my own. I was just adding random discs in the beginning, but now there's a purpose to adding them. And that is what is confusing me about DO I NEED to add a few super low glide/OS discs to my bag? Do I need to add a good speed 7-11 FH disc I can forehand far, pretty straight and with good accuracy? I have no idea.
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  #220  
Old 08-22-2019, 05:54 PM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
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Arrrgggghhhhh, so frustrating. I just want discs that go different distances just like golf. I don't want to have to sort through hundreds of discs over my lifetime trying to find the perfect disc for every shot. I just want to know how far certain discs will go based on throwing around 400' max distance. I feel like it should be much easier to get that info and know aproximately how far discs go, if you know how far someone can throw.
You sound a lot like me, at least in how I think. We're both perfectionists, and the hardest thing about (disc) golf is being okay with not being perfect. (Golf is Not a Game of Perfect by Bob Rotella speaks to this).

I still think that you can pretty much go by speed to know how far a disc will fly relative to other discs. The problem is that the flight of a disc is very sensitive to small changes. So you have one mold and different plastics cool at different rates, which yields different shapes. So you have some discs that come out domey and some more flat, and all of that affects flight characteristics. In fact, so sensitive that as your discs get more use, they get more under stable as I'm sure you know, because... physics. But it's not completely random. Any firebird off the shelf is still going to be more stable than any leopard off the shelf, but as the intended flights of two given molds converge, it's harder to tell which would fly more OS. One way that is a good test is to compare what is called the "parting line height" or "PLH" of two discs. Typically the disc with the higher PLH will be more overstable, again, because... physics.

I like to reference this flight guide when trying to decide what discs to try.

https://www.marshallstreetdiscgolf.com/flightguide

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Originally Posted by SuperWookie View Post
The second part of your response IS something I've finally paid attention to lately, now that I'm actually playing actual rounds on a course and understanding a little better. Like, I have 3-4 putters, 1 super OS, 1 great driving putter, one jack of all trades putter, and one super low glide brick (the Berg), then I have a super US Mid (the Fuse), a few straight ones (Compass and Mako3), and a few fairly straight but OS ones (S line MD3 and C line glow MD3), etc etc through my bag. So I guess that's good I figured that out on my own. I was just adding random discs in the beginning, but now there's a purpose to adding them. And that is what is confusing me about DO I NEED to add a few super low glide/OS discs to my bag? Do I need to add a good speed 7-11 FH disc I can forehand far, pretty straight and with good accuracy? I have no idea.
Nah, I would say it's more beneficial to intimately know the flight characteristics of fewer discs, than to have the perfect bag with all shots covered. You can make almost anything work, you just have to be very familiar and comfortable with each disc. Which makes losing those very painful (I'm looking at you, perfectly beat in S-PD).

I would say that you will find out on your own what you need when you step up to a hole and you don't have anything that will fly on the line that it requires.

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