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  #41  
Old 03-22-2019, 02:16 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by joecoin View Post
Not that I doubt you, can you give us some names?
How about some stats?

Number of players who played at least half the NT schedule
2014 - FPO: 9
Playing 7 of 8 = Pierce, C. Allen, Jenkins
Playing 6 of 8 = Hokom
Playing 5 of 8 = Dorries
Playing 4 of 8 = J. Allen, Weese, Andyke, Wilmerding

2014 - MPO: 20
Playing 8 of 8 = Ulibarri, Gibson
Playing 7 of 8 = Wysocki, McBeth, Doss, Koling, Feldberg
Playing 6 of 8 = McCrae, Schusterick
Playing 5 of 8 = Lizotte, Wiggins, McCabe
Playing 4 of 8 = Rico, Leiviska, Brathwaite, Nichols, Roan, Gurthie, Eckmann, Keegan

2018 - FPO: 17
Playing all 6 = C. Allen, Hokom, Panis
Playing 5 of 6 = Pierce, Fajkus, Weese, Bjerkaas, Walker
Playing 4 of 6 = Van Dyken, Andyke, King, Waibel
Playing 3 of 6 = J. Allen, Bradley, Ananda, Stinchcomb

2018 - MPO: 33
Playing all 6 = McMahon, Wysocki, McBeth, Jones, Ulibarri, Gibson, Shue, Conrad
Playing 5 of 6 = Brathwaite, Paju, Sexton, Lizotte, Hannum, Risley, Gurthie, Russell
Playing 4 of 6 = Barsby, Melton, Keegan, Perkins, Barella, Oakley, Montgomery, Wood
Playing 3 of 6 = Anthon, Doss, Freeman, Koling, Owens, Turner, Meintsma, McBride, Isaacs


Notably absent from the 2018 list are players who were on tour part or all year but either prioritized DGPT over NT, had injury issues, started late and skipped the early/west coast ones, or were DQed and not credited with attending an event. These include players like McCrae, Earhart, Heimburg, Clemons, Dickerson, Cox, and Jenkins.
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  #42  
Old 03-22-2019, 02:23 PM
Finny Finny is offline
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Originally Posted by jvphobic View Post
Prior to 2014 or 15, the NT was a tour the same way the DGWT was a "tour". A series of events that were spread out and had no real good schedule between them. Sure, they were must hit events, if you lived in the area or were one of 15 touring pros.

Pros basically "found" A-tiers between stops... IF they decided to travel. And they usually split up as to have a better chance to continue funding their travels and not compete against each other.

To ever call the National Tour a "travelling tour" was a joke. They ran (and continue to run) great events. Even into the first year of the DGPT there was bitching about "the tour".
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1leS...ew?usp=sharing

This list is from 2013, you know, about 15 years AFTER the NT started. Tell me how this tour makes ANY sense. It wasn't until the PDGA felt pressure from an actual competitor that they agreed to have a cohesive tour.

The PDGA & DGPT worked TOGETHER to make a tour. The DGPT didn't work "around" the PDGA. And to say that is just bull****.
I basically agree with Mr. V here, though less strenuously. That's why I wrote this:

https://discgolf.ultiworld.com/2019/...pro-disc-golf/

Luckily, MTL and I have already gotten to debate on the local FB page.
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  #43  
Old 03-22-2019, 02:51 PM
colink colink is offline
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
Jomez and the like seemed to have an overreaching amount of control over the content of the post-produced videos, to the detriment of the event/tour sponsors.
This is because Jomez, CCDG and Smashboxx had to find their own funding for the coverage. The DGPT didn't pay them anything to make those videos.
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  #44  
Old 03-22-2019, 02:52 PM
jvphobic jvphobic is offline
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Yes, but I disagree with your solution. I don't think that PDGA needs to buy the DGPT. I don't think they SHOULD, and I don't think they would NEED to. If the DGPT "goes away" then the PDGA has the opportunity to take the events and just make them NTs, or create a new class of event (bad idea).

And as you have heard 1000 times, raising fees to cater to a VERY small portion of the PDGA's clients would ruffle some feathers.

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  #45  
Old 03-22-2019, 02:53 PM
jvphobic jvphobic is offline
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Originally Posted by colink View Post
This is because Jomez, CCDG and Smashboxx had to find their own funding for the coverage. The DGPT didn't pay them anything to make those videos.
Oh, clarification. SmashBoxxTV was paid.
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  #46  
Old 03-22-2019, 03:08 PM
colink colink is offline
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Originally Posted by jvphobic View Post
Oh, clarification. SmashBoxxTV was paid.
Then y'all lost far more than I thought. Apologies for the inaccuracy and thanks for correcting me.
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  #47  
Old 03-22-2019, 03:11 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by colink View Post
This is because Jomez, CCDG and Smashboxx had to find their own funding for the coverage. The DGPT didn't pay them anything to make those videos.
And they shouldn't have to (pay Jomez/CCDG), particularly if they have their own source(s) of funding and they're going to reap all the benefits of posting the videos on their own channel instead of DGPT's...Google Ad revenues and Patreon support in particular.

But that shouldn't matter because the tournament is the DGPT's (and the TD's) content. They have every right to set conditions for what the film crew covers and what is contained in the videos they produce. If the DGPT (and their events and their sponsors) are unhappy with something Jomez or CCDG or Smashboxx or Gatekeeper or whomever does with the content they own, they should speak up or make changes so that they can be satisfied with it. From what I understand, DGPT did and the ultimate result was that they hired their own crew to cover the lead cards.

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  #48  
Old 03-22-2019, 03:34 PM
Finny Finny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvphobic View Post
Yes, but I disagree with your solution. I don't think that PDGA needs to buy the DGPT. I don't think they SHOULD, and I don't think they would NEED to. If the DGPT "goes away" then the PDGA has the opportunity to take the events and just make them NTs, or create a new class of event (bad idea).

And as you have heard 1000 times, raising fees to cater to a VERY small portion of the PDGA's clients would ruffle some feathers.
I may do a follow-up piece, but if not, I wish I had phrased it a bit differently. I think the PDGA should "take over" the DGPT, not really "buy." To the extent they need more funding to staff this tour, I'm fine with paying $10 more per year if we get, essentially, a 20-event NT Tour with live video. But as you note, many are not.

The PDGA does not seem interested in live video or 20 events, though. Which is a bummer. Because the main point I wanted to get across is that one unified tour would be much better and more sustainable.
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  #49  
Old 03-22-2019, 03:40 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finny View Post
I may do a follow-up piece, but if not, I wish I had phrased it a bit differently. I think the PDGA should "take over" the DGPT, not really "buy." To the extent they need more funding to staff this tour, I'm fine with paying $10 more per year if we get, essentially, a 20-event NT Tour with live video. But as you note, many are not.

The PDGA does not seem interested in live video or 20 events, though. Which is a bummer. Because the main point I wanted to get across is that one unified tour would be much better and more sustainable.
I disagree that the PDGA isn't interested in live video. I think they're plenty interested in live video, it just so happens that many of their events are in places that makes live difficult to accomplish. I can't say I blame them for not making it a requirement to be live capable (like DGPT has done) if it means most of their current NTs would not be able to fulfill it.
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  #50  
Old 03-22-2019, 04:00 PM
bwgort bwgort is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvphobic View Post
Prior to 2014 or 15, the NT was a tour the same way the DGWT was a "tour". A series of events that were spread out and had no real good schedule between them. Sure, they were must hit events, if you lived in the area or were one of 15 touring pros.

Pros basically "found" A-tiers between stops... IF they decided to travel. And they usually split up as to have a better chance to continue funding their travels and not compete against each other.

To ever call the National Tour a "travelling tour" was a joke. They ran (and continue to run) great events. Even into the first year of the DGPT there was bitching about "the tour".
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1leS...ew?usp=sharing

This list is from 2013, you know, about 15 years AFTER the NT started. Tell me how this tour makes ANY sense. It wasn't until the PDGA felt pressure from an actual competitor that they agreed to have a cohesive tour.

The PDGA & DGPT worked TOGETHER to make a tour. The DGPT didn't work "around" the PDGA. And to say that is just bull****.
I'd go a step further. Without the DGPT pushing the PDGA, the NT still would be an incoherent geographical mess of tournaments as it was for the first 15+ years of its existence.

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