#71  
Old 12-03-2019, 01:42 PM
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If the total is not directly calculated from the individual hole scores and is manually entered, there should be programming where a flag will pop up to indicate there's a mismatch or a note indicating why (penalties of some sort) the added total does not match the total entered.
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  #72  
Old 12-03-2019, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
Online scoring does not mean official scoring. If the paper card was turned in with an error, the player is subject to penalty even if the online scoring was correct.

Or....it may have been discovered after the round that the player had misplayed a hole during the round. The penalty for that is +2, which the TD may not have bothered to add to the appropriate hole on the online scorecard, instead just opting to fix the total score in the online manager.

The live scoring page shows the hole by hole scores, but the total it displays is not derived from the added total of those holes. It comes from the round score input, which is separate in the score manager.
The total on the PDGA event page shows 70, not 68. So yes it's possible the paper card actually added up to 70, but I have no idea. It's just curious that the digital scorecard would show incorrect math, but since I've never used it I don't know if it actually does the automatic addition of scores. I can't imagine it wouldn't though.
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
I am sure that is the intent. I have no actual idea how that could happen since i am not the programmer. Obviously it is a problem. Did you or Terry contact the Tech guys at PDGA?
I have contacted no one other than you guys in this thread. I wasn't even going to bring it up since nothing could be done about it anyway and I've never used the digital scorecard so I really don't know if it is supposed to automatically summarize the scores. And even if it does, I'm not sure if there's a way to override the addition.

And for the record, I was not in this event, I was just randomly checking some cards out of curiosity about the digital scorecard. Well that and there was an issue last year at this event where the TD staff was not double-checking math on the cards. They were just writing down the totals shown on the cards which was pretty surprising to say the least.
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by krupicka View Post
It could be that the players did not use live scoring but turned in a paper scorecard with an incorrect total. TD enters hole by hole scores for benefit of all players and accurately records the total with the misadded scorecrard penalty. Can't say what happened without more information.
The players did use the digital scorecard in the first round, that's what the thumbnail picture is from.
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Consult20 View Post
The total on the PDGA event page shows 70, not 68. So yes it's possible the paper card actually added up to 70, but I have no idea. It's just curious that the digital scorecard would show incorrect math, but since I've never used it I don't know if it actually does the automatic addition of scores. I can't imagine it wouldn't though.
If there's a total entered for the PDGA event page, it displays that total on the digital scorecard/live scoring page. That's simply how the website functions.
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
If there's a total entered for the PDGA event page, it displays that total on the digital scorecard/live scoring page. That's simply how the website functions.
I know it'll never happen, but I wish there were a way to see pictures of all the paper cards turned in for every event.

It sounds like you're saying digital scoring may have added up the total to 68 originally, but since the paper card added up to 70 that was what was entered into the PDGA site and then reflected in the total on the digital scorecard, leaving the individual scores on the digital scorecard as-is -- thus the discrepancy. I don't know about you but I don't think that's a good practice.
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Consult20 View Post
I know it'll never happen, but I wish there were a way to see pictures of all the paper cards turned in for every event.

It sounds like you're saying digital scoring may have added up the total to 68 originally, but since the paper card added up to 70 that was what was entered into the PDGA site and then reflected in the total on the digital scorecard, leaving the individual scores on the digital scorecard as-is -- thus the discrepancy. I don't know about you but I don't think that's a good practice.
Right. If you are using the online system as "official" there is no paper card to be turned in- you sign off on the score on the phone and it enters the system. Sounds like in this case the online was not "official" and there was an error on the paper card which was not caught.
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
...Related to this thread, I've always been concerned whether certain types of penalties like the 2-stroke penalty for scoring errors should be included in a player's score for ratings. These weren't throws the player made...
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
IMO players suffering non-throwing penalties should not be used as propagators at the very least...
What would be on people's Throwing Penalty List and on the Non-Throwing Penalty List?

Some are easy like OB, Mando, Hazard, Stance, these are all penalties accrued through the execution of a throw. And scorecard errors are clearly non-throwing penalties, as they are maths errors and often committed after the throwing is over.

But others are more interesting...

Marking penalty? It is not committed in the direct execution of a throw, but it is more closely tied with the action of throwing than other penalties.

Courtesy violations; for littering? For talking whilst someone throws? For throwing out of turn?

And misplays...

+4 to par for late arrival - probably a non-throwing penalty? As that's about getting out of bed on time!

Throwing from someone else's disc? In this case you have actually made an incorrect throw, but the error wasn't in execution, it was in observation and identification.

Throwing on a hole not being used?

The rules 'test' a range of different skills. Ability to throw a disc is just one of them. Others are: maths, recording scores, timekeeping, mood control, course knowledge/map reading, managing your equipment, policing (other players) etc etc. I think it probably is easier just to keep all the penalties/strokes under one roof. It's your score for your complete 'golf' game.

PS Does ball golf include penalties in whatever they use for ratings?
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
Right. If you are using the online system as "official" there is no paper card to be turned in- you sign off on the score on the phone and it enters the system. Sounds like in this case the online was not "official" and there was an error on the paper card which was not caught.
Paper cards were the official scores for this event -- the digital scorecard was optional but would not replace the official paper card.

In any case, the way the system works right now, to me, is flawed.
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Old 12-03-2019, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Consult20 View Post
I know it'll never happen, but I wish there were a way to see pictures of all the paper cards turned in for every event.

It sounds like you're saying digital scoring may have added up the total to 68 originally, but since the paper card added up to 70 that was what was entered into the PDGA site and then reflected in the total on the digital scorecard, leaving the individual scores on the digital scorecard as-is -- thus the discrepancy. I don't know about you but I don't think that's a good practice.
Possible scenario
Player does NOT use digital score card.
TD enters hole scores from paper score into live scoring.
Paper score card had incorrect total
TD enters actual throws +2 for round score.

That is how it should work.

And FWIW you are welcome to come by a dig through all of the paper scorecards I have from over a decade of running events. Heck if you took them to take photos, my wife would love it if they weren't at my house anymore.
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