#31  
Old 01-21-2020, 05:13 PM
araytx araytx is offline
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Originally Posted by toddnick View Post
Thanks for the replies.

I can see from a spectators perspective that having a par assigned makes it easier to understand where players (who have finished a different number of holes on a tournament round) stand against each other as the round is going on.

After the round is over for all the participants, to me raw score is just as acceptable. McBeth (54), Wysocki (55)...just as good as...McBeth (-6) vs. Wysocki (-5).
Todd, you are right. AFTER the round is over the raw score and the score v.par DO mean exactly the same thing. SO for the people who only care after the round is over (the "SportsCenter highlights, only, please" people), you are exactly right. For it to be a true spectator sport, both live and on visual media Specifically for big-time events where the players are on different holes at different times), during the event the raw scores likely have no meaning in order to compare Wysocki & McBeth if they weren't in the same tee time group.

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Originally Posted by toddnick View Post
I have never concerned myself with par, in fact, I have no idea what the assigned par is on certain holes at courses I've played many times.

Also, if par is so important to be consistent then why do people just blow off these assigned pars on certain courses and just say that every hole is a par 3...it makes it easier to tally, but it says that the assigned par really doesn't matter.
Simple. As others have said, when players say that, they AREN'T talking about "par." They are saying the word "par" but that is not what they're talking about. They are talking about the shortcut scorekeeping method.


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Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
I've used "par 3" for every hole on every course I've played.....ever. And guess what... everyone's score is easy to understand, everyone easily knows where they're "at" towards the end of the round. Even the peeps with us not playing easily understands if someone is winning or losing. Discgolf blew their chance to be different years ago.. the game should have stabilized "par 3" from the start imop.
I beg to differ, because in my world, the spectators matter. I'd challenge the true effect of what you said, when you are playing a tee time event and desiring a compelling spectator experience.
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Last edited by araytx; 01-21-2020 at 05:17 PM.
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  #32  
Old 01-21-2020, 09:58 PM
toddnick toddnick is offline
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Having spectated several events the last two years...

2018 World's, 2018 USDGC, 2019 World's and 2019 GMC...

It is good to have a reference to par as a spectator...but what is par is less important...you can follow players scores equally well regardless of whether hole 2 at Northwoods is a par 3 or a par 4...

And you never equally compare scores to par at different courses, because par is so subjective...

Player ratings are much less so because they are based on raw score and not par...
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  #33  
Old 01-21-2020, 11:09 PM
elmexdela elmexdela is offline
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Originally Posted by Hampstead View Post
Philo would be pissed if all 3's robbed him of that Albatross.
wut about nikko
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  #34  
Old 01-21-2020, 11:15 PM
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Hampstead Hampstead is offline
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Originally Posted by elmexdela View Post
wut about nikko
That was amazing, sure enough. But, he hasn't parlayed that into a nickname and included it in his signature yet. Plus, Philo was first. But, yes. Nikko the human airplane wouldn't like it either.

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  #35  
Old 01-21-2020, 11:21 PM
Casey 1988 Casey 1988 is offline
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Originally Posted by Casey 1988 View Post
I do think in Disc Golf with how easy it is to have disc golf courses having a hole at 200 feet or under that a New player can get a 2 on with a slow fairway/midrange hybrid. I mean Disc Golf takes less work to do then say a Ball Golf or Foot Golf course where the course needs to be open with edges more the trees and stuff after the rough, even true of highland style golf or old Hill Golf courses so more of these little open 200 and under foot holes are going to be around. This means a par 2 is needed if we are going to keep courses the same with these tiny holes that are 200 feet and under.
Let me fix my mistake above.
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  #36  
Old 01-22-2020, 12:41 AM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddnick View Post
...you can follow players scores equally well regardless of whether hole 2 at Northwoods is a par 3 or a par 4...
Really? So a score of 4 on #2 is just the same as a 4 on hole #3? Don't you want to know why everyone is groaning on #2 and politely clapping on hole #3?

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Originally Posted by toddnick View Post
And you never equally compare scores to par at different courses, because par is so subjective...
Not so much anymore. Well-run tournaments are converging on par for the Open division based on the play of 1000-rated players and the official definition in the rule book.

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  #37  
Old 01-22-2020, 07:24 AM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is online now
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For all tournament players, another benefit of setting par is to equitably penalize missed holes.

Short of making a missed hole an automatic DQ---whether missed for late arrival, mid-round emergency, or navigation error---which we're not willing to do, particularly at the local tournament level, we need a way to equitably penalize players. There's a difference between Player A missing a 200' ace-run hole, and Player B missing a 900' monster lined with O.B., so having the same penalty wouldn't make sense. Setting par, so they're penalized by the expected score plus 4, handles this.

But you have to have par to do this.

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  #38  
Old 01-22-2020, 04:53 PM
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Olorin Olorin is offline
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Originally Posted by Olorin View Post
There hasn't been a new DGCR par thread in a couple of years. If you have some time on your hands click here.
DGCR has 5 threads about whether every hole should be a par 3. (Click here if you're too lazy to click above.)
Who said that quote about those who don't know the past being doomed to repeat it?
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  #39  
Old 01-22-2020, 07:57 PM
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DGCR seems to have a bad case of parvo.
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  #40  
Old 01-23-2020, 04:00 PM
adamgservo adamgservo is offline
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As an alternative to trying to figure out reasonable par for each hole, it would be cool if typical round ratings were readily available for courses that had tournament data. You can search PDGA website and figure it out, but it takes some detective work.

Something like:
Red Tees: 50 = 1000, 60=900, 70=800
Blue Tees: 53=1000, 63=900, 72=800
etc...

It wouldn't be exactly right because round ratings change for every tournament, but would be close enough to let you know how well you played. Instead of: I shot -6 you could say, I shot -6 and that is approximately a 940 round. And then you could compare that other course where you shot -2 but was also a 940 round.

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