#61  
Old 08-29-2020, 09:00 AM
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Streets Streets is offline
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Originally Posted by Keller View Post
As far as marketing goes;
You hear from Danny Lindahl and the like, newer players bag should have;
An understable, a stable and an over stable disc of each type of disc, plus a utility disc and a long range bomber disc. And Two putters.

So that's 16 discs. Really? For a newer or less experienced player?
Oh yeah, the guys that preach this crap work for disc companies!
Danny "Pornstache" Lindahl is the worst. Crappy advice and a DD shill to boot.
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  #62  
Old 08-29-2020, 09:26 AM
Rastnav Rastnav is offline
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Originally Posted by Keller View Post
I became a mold minimalist through experience.

As far as marketing goes;
You hear from Danny Lindahl and the like, newer players bag should have;
An understable, a stable and an over stable disc of each type of disc, plus a utility disc and a long range bomber disc. And Two putters.

So that's 16 discs. Really? For a newer or less experienced player?
Oh yeah, the guys that preach this crap work for disc companies!
Lindahl warns players off high speed discs as beginners.

He also recommends that beginners throw mids and putters. Thats the entire contents of one of his latest videos.

So Id say you have him completely backwards.
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  #63  
Old 08-29-2020, 09:33 AM
Rastnav Rastnav is offline
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Originally Posted by armiller View Post
There's obviously a disagreement about what mold minimalism is exactly.
That seems like the truest thing said so far.

But it does seem to me that people who are promoting mold minimalism are not pushing an organic process, no matter that this may be how they got to their minimal sets.

As I said at the beginning, Ill be happy when my current Compass beats in to understable. But Im likely to carry some other understable mid until that happens.
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Old 08-29-2020, 09:52 AM
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armiller armiller is offline
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Originally Posted by Rastnav View Post
That seems like the truest thing said so far.

But it does seem to me that people who are promoting mold minimalism are not pushing an organic process, no matter that this may be how they got to their minimal sets.

As I said at the beginning, Ill be happy when my current Compass beats in to understable. But Im likely to carry some other understable mid until that happens.
Yes I think "mold minimalism" can mean a lot of things. To keep it simple, these two seem like the two extremes.
1) Mold minimalism for improving your game, form, etc. This probably should be something that every disc golfer has experienced at some point. Learn how to make one disc do lots of things, and that improves your form and game in a way that then lets you do even better things with molds that do the shot better.
2) Mold minimalism for your official tournament bag. There are so few guys that actually do this. Philo is one that comes to mind. He makes it work, but I would argue that most can't, whether because they can't obtain the right distribution of Rocs, Teebirds, Destroyers, and Aviars. There's also the debate as to whether this really provides any kind of advantage... it certainly doesn't seem worth it to me or to many pros.
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  #65  
Old 08-29-2020, 10:06 AM
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Keller Keller is offline
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Originally Posted by Rastnav View Post
Lindahl warns players off high speed discs as beginners.

He also recommends that beginners throw mids and putters. Thats the entire contents of one of his latest videos.

So Id say you have him completely backwards.
Go find his build a bag video
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Old 08-29-2020, 10:15 AM
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rusch_bag rusch_bag is offline
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I have gone both routes, mostly a more minimalist approach, but end of the day as long as you have every shot covered, who cares. Is having 4 rocs really that different than having a buzzz os, buzzz, buzzz ss, and a meteor, they both cover the same shots. You can have every disc in the world in your bag, but you still need to be able to throw them at different angles. You can't just throw a flat shot on every hole or you are going to be limiting the shots you can perform.

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Old 08-29-2020, 10:17 AM
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Three Putt Three Putt is offline
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There's obviously a disagreement about what mold minimalism is exactly.
I think it's mostly a problem with confusing cycling and mold minimalism. You CAN cycle and I did cycle (actually still do) but in the beginning it was "take 4-5 discs and throw them all the time".

Like I mentioned before, to me it's more of a process. The process starts with 4-5 discs. In my example, the Stingray got lost (on a temp hole, it was found and returned to me two years later) so I bought a new one + a new one of all the molds so I'd have a backup. After some time I realize the discs I threw all the time were beat in and flew differently from the backups, so I could use the backups when I needed more stability, the wind was blowing, etc. Eventually at the end I had a bag with five Aviars, six Rocs, two Cyclones and two Banshees. For all practical purposes I used two Aviars, three Rocs, two Cyclones and one Banshee; the rest were in there as backups.

Both of what I was doing in the beginning and at the end would be considered mold minimalism, but I was at different stages of the process so what was actually in my bag was different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastnav View Post
But it does seem to me that people who are promoting mold minimalism are not pushing an organic process, no matter that this may be how they got to their minimal sets.
I don't understand what you mean by an organic process, can you explain a little?
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Old 08-29-2020, 10:19 AM
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Keller Keller is offline
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Originally Posted by Rastnav View Post
Lindahl warns players off high speed discs as beginners.

He also recommends that beginners throw mids and putters. Thats the entire contents of one of his latest videos.

So Id say you have him completely backwards.
He warns newer players to stay away from higher speed drivers and yet he recommends the Escape for beginners.

Oh yeah, DD has the Escape in it's starter pack.

You also seem to have a negative response for anyone with a counter opinion, so I'm guessing you wouldn't mind a flame war.


If you don't want to cycle, then don't, how are people who cycle a problem for you? What's your motive in starting this thread? Are you the new SD86 incarnation?

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Old 08-29-2020, 10:30 AM
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Three Putt Three Putt is offline
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Originally Posted by rusch_bag View Post
I have gone both routes, mostly a more minimalist approach, but end of the day as long as you have every shot covered, who cares. Is having 4 rocs really that different than having a buzzz os, buzzz, buzzz ss, and a meteor, they both cover the same shots. You can have every disc in the world in your bag, but you still need to be able to throw them at different angles. You can't just throw a flat shot on every hole or you are going to be limiting the shots you can perform.
Agreed.

Something to throw in is that when I was going through the process, all discs were base plastic so you could beat them in. A Z Buzzz isn't going to beat in anytime soon; if you throw premium plastics cycling doesn't really work in a practical sense. In the modern game with premium plastics, the process I was talking about doesn't really happen. You take step one with 4-5 discs and you are going to be there for a long time. Long enough that whatever you were going to learn about executing different shots with the same disc is probably going to happen in step one and from there continuing with it would only make sense if it makes you more comfortable in your mental game.

The process progresses better with base plastics, but you don't HAVE to do it that way. You just are not going to cycle Z plastic discs unless you play A LOT.

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  #70  
Old 08-29-2020, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armiller View Post
Yes I think "mold minimalism" can mean a lot of things. To keep it simple, these two seem like the two extremes.
1) Mold minimalism for improving your game, form, etc. This probably should be something that every disc golfer has experienced at some point. Learn how to make one disc do lots of things, and that improves your form and game in a way that then lets you do even better things with molds that do the shot better.
2) Mold minimalism for your official tournament bag. There are so few guys that actually do this. Philo is one that comes to mind. He makes it work, but I would argue that most can't, whether because they can't obtain the right distribution of Rocs, Teebirds, Destroyers, and Aviars. There's also the debate as to whether this really provides any kind of advantage... it certainly doesn't seem worth it to me or to many pros.
Again, I think the mold minimalism pro bag was an artifact of the pre-premium plastics. I watched Ron Russell battle Crazy John on a lead card one day in the 90's; Russel had a Magnet/Comet/Cyclone bag and Crazy John had an Aviar, two Rocs and a Viper he was carrying in his hand. That was pretty normal for the time; discs topped out a speed six and all we had was base plastics.

Now there are thousands of discs faster than a Cyclone and dozens of durable premium plastic blends to run them in. A top pro can't get away with three molds today. A top pro already knows how to execute shots so the process of cycling isn't going to help them much. It's just not a thing you would do today.

I think that context gets lost a lot of the time. Blake wrote that post in the spring of 2006; Ron Russell had won World's with that Magnet/Comet/Cyclone bag six years earlier. It was already the "old-school" approach by then. It's kinda the dinosaur approach now. It doesn't fit very well with modern discs, modern plastics and with what modern players want to do.

You can still learn a lot from it if you try it, though.

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